Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 178 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    Of course the Bible never mentions 70 years of exile at all.

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    False, the Bible clearly and unequivocally describes the 70 years as a Period of Exile or as many historians describe this period of Jewish History as the 'Exilic period'. Refer Rainer Albertz.

    Biblical texts that describe the 70 years as exilic are the following: Jer. 25:11-12; 29:10 2 Chron 36:20-23; Dan 9:1-19.

    ------
    the Jews have already returned when the 70 years ends (even though most of the Jews remained in Babylon and the 'return' in 538 BCE was actually just permission to rebuild the temple), so turning attention to their return after they've arrived is just stupid

    ---Nonsense. The 70 years only ended when the Jews had returned with the seventh month in 537 BCE which ended the Exile by means of the Decree of Cyrus. The date 538 BCE is bogus as you well know..

    scholar JW emeritus

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    scholar:
    False, the Bible clearly and unequivocally describes the 70 years as a Period of Exile or as many historians describe this period of Jewish History as the 'Exilic period'. Refer Rainer Albertz.

    Biblical texts that describe the 70 years as exilic are the following: Jer. 25:11-12; 29:10 2 Chron 36:20-23; Dan 9:1-19.

    No, doofus. Historians date the initial exile to early 597 BCE and the destruction of Jerusalem to 587 BCE (with some Christian sources preferring 586). None of the passages mentions 70 years of exile

    • Jer. 25:11-12 refers to nations serving Babylon, not exile (and Jeremiah 27:8-11 specifies that serving Babylon is the way to avoid exile).
    • Jer. 29:10-14 specifies that returning to Jerusalem necessarily follows the end of the 70 years
    • 2 Chron 36:20-23 stipulates that nations served Babylon until the kingdom of Persia began, not until Jews returned from exile, with the return following the end of serving Babylon (and also noting that the interpolation from Leviticus 26:34-35 is not 'the word of Jeremiah')
    • Dan 9:1-19 (written in the 2nd century BCE) reflects recognition of the order events of Jeremiah 29:10-14, being that 70 years would end and then attention would be given to the Jews' return
  • Rocketman123
    Rocketman123
    In the year 539 BCE, after uniting the Persian and Median kingdoms under his rule, king Cyrus subdued the Babylonian Empire. In 538 BCE King Cyrus made a public declaration granting the Jews the right to return to Judah and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.
    Cyrus Declaration stamp
    Cyrus Declaration stamp
    Copyright: Israel Post
    (Israel Philatelic Federation)

    In the year 586 BCE, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylonia conquered the city of Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and sent many of the inhabitants of Judah into exile. The Babylonian Exile ended when the empire was conquered by Cyrus II of Persia and Media, who made a public declaration granting the Jews the right to return to Judah and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

    In the year 539 BCE, after uniting the Persian and Median kingdoms under his rule, King Cyrus subdued the Babylonian Empire. He founded the First Persian Empire, ruling over large areas stretching from India in the east to Egypt in the west.

    Shortly thereafter, in 538 BCE, King Cyrus made a public declaration, the content of which was preserved in the Book of Ezra:

    "In the first year of King Cyrus of Persia... the Lord roused the spirit of King Cyrus of Persia to issue a proclamation throughout his realm by word of mouth and in writing as follows: Thus said King Cyrus of Persia: The Lord God of Heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has charged me with building Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Anyone of you of all His people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem that is in Judah and build the House of the Lord God of Israel, the God that is in Jerusalem" (Ezra, chapter 1).

    Many modern biblical researchers were skeptical about the wording of the declaration as described in the Book of Ezra. Among other things, they claimed that it was improbable that a Persian king would have made a declaration in Hebrew or declared that he was acting as a messenger of the God of Israel.

    But archeological excavations conducted in the ancient city of Babylon in 1879, discovered a clay cylinder bearing a long inscription in Akkadian. The inscription included a plea made by King Cyrus to the Babylonians in which he declared that he had acted on behalf of the Babylonian god Marduk. "I, Cyrus King of Babylonia… Marduk the Great Lord… blessed me… and I built for them a permanent Temple. I gathered all their inhabitants and restored their place of residence." This archeological discovery strengthened the view that Cyrus was sympathetic and supportive of all the peoples under his rule and that the Declaration which appeared in the Bible was an accurate reflection of history.

    The Cylinder of Cyrus appears in the foreground of the stamp, with decorations inspired by Persian art in the background. (Photo courtesy of © The Trustees of the British Museum)

    Following the Cyrus Declaration, some of the Babylon Exiles returned to Jerusalem, rebuilt the Temple and founded an autonomous Jewish province called Yehud Medinata. The stamp tab features a coin minted in this autonomous province in the mid-4th century BCE, during the Persian rule. The front of the coin is engraved with a lily and the back is adorned with a spread-winged falcon as well as the word "Yehud" in ancient Hebrew letters. The coin is part of the Israel Museum collection. (Photo courtesy of © The Israel Museum)
  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    scholar:

    Nonsense. The 70 years only ended when the Jews had returned with the seventh month in 537 BCE which ended the Exile by means of the Decree of Cyrus. The date 538 BCE is bogus as you well know.

    No part of that statement is true. Unless you meant to put a colon after "Nonsense".

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Rocketman123:

    Many modern biblical researchers were skeptical about the wording of the declaration as described in the Book of Ezra. Among other things, they claimed that it was improbable that a Persian king would have made a declaration in Hebrew or declared that he was acting as a messenger of the God of Israel.

    But archeological excavations conducted in the ancient city of Babylon in 1879, discovered a clay cylinder bearing a long inscription in Akkadian. The inscription included a plea made by King Cyrus to the Babylonians in which he declared that he had acted on behalf of the Babylonian god Marduk. "I, Cyrus King of Babylonia… Marduk the Great Lord… blessed me… and I built for them a permanent Temple. I gathered all their inhabitants and restored their place of residence." This archeological discovery strengthened the view that Cyrus was sympathetic and supportive of all the peoples under his rule and that the Declaration which appeared in the Bible was an accurate reflection of history.

    Cyrus was indeed tolerant of other religious beliefs (because it helped keep the conquered peoples in check), but it isn't the case that Cyrus made a special decree unique to the Jews as is claimed in the Bible. The cited inscription, which makes no reference to the Jews, indicates that Cyrus had a temple built in honour of Marduk (to placate the conquered Babylonians), and he allowed other peoples captured by Babylon to restore their homeland. There is no indication (nor reason) that Cyrus would have a temple built in honour of Marduk in Jerusalem, which would in any case be inconsistent with his religious tolerance.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    scholar:

    Nope. The seventy years was a period of the Exile in Babylon, Desolation of the Land of Judah and Servitude to Babylon beginning with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. and ending with the Return in 537 BCE. Nice and easy!!!

    The only reason JWs say the Jews 'must' have returned in 537 BCE is because they count 2,520 years backwards from 1914 to arrive at 607 BCE and then count forward 70 years to arrive at 537. If you were a JW in 1942 before they realised there was no 'year 0' between 1 BCE and 1 CE 🤦‍♂️, you would be asserting that Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 BCE and that they returned in 536 BCE.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard
    Nope. The seventy years was a period of the Exile in Babylon, Desolation of the Land of Judah and Servitude to Babylon beginning with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. and ending with the Return in 537 BCE. Nice and easy!!!

    Jer 25:12 states the seventy years would end, then Babylon would be called to account. It says it explicitly, directly. You are just mistaken, as is the WT. Your mistake pits you directly against the holy book you so admire. Seventy years of servitude.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    MeanMrMustard:

    Jer 25:12 states the seventy years would end, then Babylon would be called to account. It says it explicitly, directly. You are just mistaken, as is the WT.

    Given the directness of the statements at Jeremiah 25:11-12 (and others), it is granting him a lot of latitude to say he is "mistaken". More accurately, it is a delusion.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    Scholar has been arguing for the WT's chronology on this site for years, probably decades. He rarely comments on any other topic.

  • Rocketman123
    Rocketman123

    2 Chronicles 36:20-23 NLT

    The few who survived were taken as exiles to Babylon, and they became servants to the king and his sons until the kingdom of Persia came to power. So the message of the LORD spoken through Jeremiah was fulfilled. The land finally enjoyed its Sabbath rest, lying desolate until the seventy years were fulfilled, just as the prophet had said.

    A bible writer bullshitted and lied which is not uncommon in the contents of the bible.

    The land did not lay desolate for 70 years, we known that conclusively through timeline of events that occurred within both Jerusalem and Babylon.

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