Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 178 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  johnamos

  Nonsense: If this is really the case then you should be able to tabulate historically when each of those nations served Babylon.

  Yes, you're right - that is nonsense. Ironically, the Watch Tower Society actually put it best on this one in Isaiah's Prophecy, volume 1, page 253: True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.

  Wrong!

  It is correct that the 70 years represents the period of Babylon's greatest domination. (Which you can see that they state the that domination ended in 539 which logically means it started in 609.)

  In is not correct to say that Tyre was not subject to Babylon a full 70 years and different nations came under that domination at different times.

  All nations were subject to Babylon for the same 70 years. It started and ended at the same period for all the nations, and that period was from 609 -539, when Babylon was the 3rd world power. (It's greatest domination period.)

  Being subject/serving Babylon was not contingent on a nation being destroyed or being brought to Babylon as captives. That only happen as a punishment for not serving willingly.

  [Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and THESE NATIONS will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”]
  

  [Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, when many nations and great kings will make him their slave.’8 ‘If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have finished them off by his hand.’9 Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.11 ‘But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.]
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  TD

  Babylon was a powerful city state that dominated big chunks of Mesopotamia during two periods of history, but it was never a world power in a military sense.

  Surely you know this (?)
  
  
• 

  johnamos

  Was Assyria a world power?

  Was medo-persia a world power?
• 

  TD

  The Assyrian Empire encompassed modern Egypt, Libya, Iran, Armenia and the Arabian peninsula and included many fortified cities.

  The Achaemenid Empire was even bigger, holding Ethiopia and most of Modern Greece, including Athens as well. This was arguably the first true world empire.

  The Babylonian sphere of influence during the time period you're talking about was small and short-lived in comparison because again, we're talking about a city state and not an entire kingdom. They did not conquer their more powerful neighbors. Not even Egypt. Quite the opposite, they were assimilated into the Persian Empire, just like the powerful city states of Greece were eventually united under one ruler
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  johnamos

  Nabopolassar 626-605

  Nebuchadnezzar 605-562

  Nabonidus 556-539

  Did these Babylonian kings rule during those years?

  Was there a battle in Harran, Assyria in 609 with Nabopolassar and Nebuchadnezzar present?

  Did Cyrus king of Persia take Nabonidus king of Babylon captive in 539?
  
• 

  TD

  I wasn't questioning whether the Neo-Babylonian Empire existed. Of course it did

  I'm pointing out that the idea of ALL nations being subject to Babylon can't be taken literally.

  Babylon and Egypt struggled for control of the Levant throughout the entire period with both of them winning and losing battles. The kings of Babylon managed to stop Egypt's Eastern expansion, but they certainly never conquered Egypt.

  To the North were the Kingdoms of Media and Lydia and farther to the Northwest was Greece. That's a whole lot of real estate that was not under Babylonian control, so the idea of Babylon being one in a series of world powers must be restricted to some sort of figurative or prophetic sense (Which I believe the JW's actually do)
• 

  Jeffro

  johnamos:

  In is not correct to say that Tyre was not subject to Babylon a full 70 years and different nations came under that domination at different times.

  It is correct in the sense that the JW source that I quoted conflates ‘subjection’ with ‘exile’ and that Tyre was not exiled for the 70 years during which Babylon was ‘world power’, which in context really meant ‘had control of territories that were previously controlled by Egypt’.

  Compare the concept of nations ‘serving Babylon’ for 70 years with the ‘calamity’ (Jeremiah chapter 25) that ‘went from nation to nation’. The ‘calamity’ referred to attacks on individual nations which happened to different nations at different times, whereas they are all considered to ‘serve’ Babylon for the full 70 years.
  
  
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  johnamos

  Y'all may be making valid points (IDK), but they are irrelevant as it relates to the lunacy of JW world and their explanation of the 70 years.

  In that 'Isaiah's Prophecy' quote they actually tear down their own teaching of the 70 years being for the Jews in exile.

  They clearly state: 'Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination' and 'the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E.'

  If the 70 years represents their greatest domination period and it ended in 539 then it must have begun in 609.

  That agrees with the following:

  [10-1-11 WT p.27 – Instead of saying 70 years “at Babylon,” many translations read “for Babylon.” (NIV) Some historians therefore claim that this 70-year period applies to the Babylonian Empire.]

  [10-1-11 WT – According to secular chronology, the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.]

  
  
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  Jeffro

  johnamos:

  In that 'Isaiah's Prophecy' quote they actually tear down their own teaching of the 70 years being for the Jews in exile.

  Yes. That is why I quoted it.