Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus 207 Replies latest jw friends


    Everything we do in life we choose to. Nobody (unless you believe in demon possession of the human body) can take away our choices.

    If somebody holds a gun to our heads and tells us to do something, we still have a choice. But I think everyone would agree that when having a gun held to our head, to do something someone else instructed us to do, would be considered Physical or Body Control. Is that because we did not have a choice? Wrong! We have a choice, that doesn't mean that we wanted to do what the person with the gun says, but we would probably do it out of fear for our lives. It wasn't initiated from our own hears, but we would do it because the gunman told us to do it. And that is physical control. How much more so, if we saw others shot before our eyes by the same gunman for not following his instructions.

    It's the same with witnesses, they have choices, they make choices, they make the choice to shun people, to go out in service, to do all the things WTS says to do, but don't they also have a gun to their heads, a spiritual gun? And they have certainly been eyewitnesses to the WTS pulling the trigger on those who chose to disagree or disobey. So as most people would not argue with a gunman, so do most witnesses not argue with the WTS, for it means death just the same.

    I know as a JW, I was deeply afraid of dying in Armageddon which was strongly insinuated by Elders and WT, that it would come in a few years. I did things I didn't feel right about because the WTS put a spiritual gun to my head telling me that God would hate me and kill me. After baptism, it was like having another gun to your head, you have to worry about Armageddon and Disfellowshipping. I made the choices to do things as a JW, I conciously made the choice to follow the WTS, even if it did not feel right in my heart, but that is because of the two big ass guns to my head, I definitely was afraid of being shot spiritually.

    So that is why JW's are under MIND CONTROL because they are controlled by the fear of death and are instructed what to do in order to avoid death. They make the concious decision not to die by the WTS by following their commandments. That doesn't mean they feel right about the decisions they make.

    And isn't that what control is? Instructing somebody to do something that they would'nt otherwise do, by a mental threat of death by God and death by disfellowshipping.

    And as far as the previous comment: "Membership in any group is contingent on playing the game by their rules." In most cases that statement is 100% accurate, but comparing WTS to other organizations is like comparing apples and oranges. WTS is unlike any other organization that I know of. They are the only organization that I have belonged to that has threatened me to die if I did not believe and obey everything they sat. I have been apart of many organizations, Work related, YMCA, Youth baseball, boy scouts, school's, debate groups, you name it I've done it. And to be apart of those organizations, for the most part I had to play their game. But I was never threatened with death by those organizations for disagreeing or leaving them. They didn't tell me that if I did not advocate for that organization I would die, they didn't tell me how to think. My friends from those organizations, didn't shun me because I changed shools or jobs (even leaving on bad terms from the job, ie fired), they were still my friends and my employers in most cases supported and encouraged me to find employment elsewhere. I didn't live in fear of death because I didn't play by their rules. Can't you see the difference in comparing the WTS to other Organizations? And that's why other organizations who want you to play their game do not exercise mind control, can you see the difference?

    "The fact remains that any JW can leave whenever they want to, and many of us are living proof. You just have to want to leave badly enough to pay the prices,"

    Saying a JW has a choice to leave is like telling a person with a gun to their head, that it is their fault, and they could of chose to have been shot then to do what the gunman says. JW's make the choice, but they are under mental control by the WTS because the only reason they make the choice is the big spiritual gun to their heads. Can you blame them?

    Just imagine if the WTS told JW's they no longer had to fear Armageddon or disfellowshipping, that God will be happy with them no matter what. Do you think the JW's would still act the same? Hell no! They would be totally different people, they would in fact act like people who are not under mind control.

  • minimus

    BULLFROG----WELCOME!!!! That was a great 1st post. I'm sure we'll be hoping to hear more from you!

  • gambit

    Heathen --

    I think they do use voodoo techniques as well .

    LOL ! That is great ! I wouldn't doubt it.

    Bullfrog -- Welcome. You're free. Great post. Hope to read more of what you have to say.

  • garybuss

    All interesting comments. Welcome Bullfrog!

    Gambit, When the Witness people started shunning me when I was not disfellowshipped I asked them if they were doing it because the Publishing Corporation gave them new directives. They said no, it was a personal decision and had nothing to do with the Publishing Corporation or it's trademark religion, Jehovah's Witnesses.

    When I finally called him and asked him about it, my father told me I was not being invited to family gatherings and he had not contacted me in over a year because I was not active in the religion.

    Then I contacted the city head elder and asked him if any orders had been given for the Witness people to shun me and he said no. As far as the religion was concerned, they were free to associate with me, no problem.

    Since I have been talking to and corresponding with active and former Witness people, one pattern is clear. Active Witnesses all say they are not being controlled and do all with free will. Former Witnesses tend to say they did their behaviors as Witnesses under control, many say mind control. The former Witnesses who advocate the mind control model have not demonstrated to me how they went from mind control to not under mind control in such a short time period if not by exercising the free will that was there all the time. Exercising free will at will defeats the mind control thesis.

    Most every reply here is evidence that my thesis is right. Replies here are done with free will. Am I right? What is the background of those making the replies? He that started the thread?

    If testimony is evidence for, then it is evidence against.

    I tend to view the Witnesses as a court views criminals and to treat them as free moral agents as they claim. So far all of the evidence I have seen says they are free agents and are not any more under mind control than Catholic people or any other theism based groups. If the Witness people are under mind control, where is the proof? GaryB

  • minimus

    Gary, You just don't believe in saying mind control is a reason for saying why JW's or ex JW's are the way they are. And this thing about the Publishing Crporation is because you think that because you didn't get officially shunned by the Society, that it must be the people who are doing the shunning. Here's my guess: Either they shunned you because THEY simply didn't like you or they shunned you because THEY regarded you as an "apostate"..............btw, they are instructed not to get the Watchtower Society involved.

  • undercover

    The fact that so many do leave shows that their free will is still functioning. There is not total mind control.

    But at the same time, why does it take so long for many to leave? Why didn't I see through the decpetions 20 years ago? Why didn't I see the hypocrisy? Why didn't I question the organization the same as I question anything else? How did I remain fooled? I don't care to blame anyone about the past. I'm willing to let it go. But something more than my laziness to research the WTS kept me in for so long.

    While I was not in a total mind control where they can suggest anything and I do it, there was some kind of control to influence me and keep me from using my independant thinking ability. I look at the actions and thinking of my family(still in) and I see them do and say things, influenced by the WTS teachings, that actually go against their personalities and how they think in all other aspects of life.

    I'm not a pschycologist(not even sure I spelled it right), I have no college degrees, but from my own experience and from observations of life, I believe that some form of mind control is in use, whether planned or coincidental, by the WTS.

    As I said before, both sides have valid points, and I appreciate all the comments. It makes me think more instead of having a knee-jerk reaction. Thanks for making my brain have to do some work.

  • garybuss

    Min, I take all shunning, and all other abuse as well, personally. It is charged as a debit to the person doing it.

    As for those people not liking me, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem that they were borrowing my tools and equipment to do work on the Kingdom Hall property while they were shunning me. GaryB

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    If mind control really worked then all Witnesses would be getting ten plus hours a month in the field ministry, holding a bible study, and never missing a meeting, and most of them would be pioneering. It's obvious to anyone that isn't happening so it's a pretty shoddy sort of 'mind control.'

  • undercover
    it's a pretty shoddy sort of 'mind control.'

    Yea, it's not a perfect or a total mind control. That's why so many are leaving.

    Maybe that's why it isn't a planned thing. In their effort to be God('s spokemen), they have used certain procedures or whatever to "teach" and it has a controlling effect.

    Then on the other hand, maybe it is planned. Maybe they only want the weakest minded people. Easier to control. The stronger minded ones eventually figure it out, leave, get DF'd or DA'd and are shunned thus keeping them from spilling the beans to the others.

  • gambit

    Garybuss -

    Im am 42 yo, left the org at 18... I "knew" I had to cause it felt wrong, but didn't understand it all. One of my brothers, 2 years older than me, was disfellowshipped when I was 16, he was 18. He was kicked out by my father and told he wasn't welcome home. This is not heresay, I was there to watch and hear it all. I was told NOT to associate with him (or my oldest brother) as they where bad influences.

    I never got dunked, and moved on with my life as soon as possible (that is, I finished HS and got a job)... I ended up living on the streets, under viaducts, and hitching rides all across the country for a year or so. I started in Colorado, ended up in very rural Alabama homeless, penniless, the clothes on my back (and a brief case of STYX and STONES albums... pretty funny ! Music paid for a lot of meals !!! )... I located my DF'd brother and he put me up while I attempted to detox, but I went further down hill. He ended up moving on with his life (by way of thumb) but I was too numb to go on.

    To cut to the chase, it took me years to put my life together... having kids was a blessing for me, since I was able to grow up all over again, taking more lessons from them (socially) than they know and always being an emotional supporter of their goals. 2-3 years ago, as my two oldest left home, I began going through sever depression, anxiety, lack of concentration, and all sorts of other "strange" symptoms... Mid-life crisis some say... NOT... I finally realized something... a lot of things I was taught, which I was unaware I was taught, stuck with me... Like, you talk marriage before you kiss, you accept anything someone dishes out to you in the name of love, masturbation is a sin, going down is a perverse act, the woman is submissive in a marriage... shall I go on... THIS IS ALL CRAP, B*LLSH*T, and, taught VERY, VERY WRONG !!!

    So, don't call it "mind control" if you don't want to. Don't matter, cuz the effect is the same. It was my parents responsibility to be parents, not to pawn the job off on some self-righteous publishing company that can wash it's hands of any wrong doing... "Cause it's just a publishing company"...

    BTW My formative years (9-14) were spent hearing over and over and over how 1975 was going to be the end of the world...

    In conclusion, yes gary, I agree with all your arguments... they do admit free will, they do admit that they choose to be the way you are, they are responsible... I guess if none of the other examples have made the point, I will try one more... every teenager is wiser and smarter than his/her parents !!! Just ask them !!! It's called growth... those that grow THROUGH the process, realize they needed some guidance and reassurance that they were wiser and smarter than a little kid. A mature parent will step aside and let their kids grow through this process and become self-sustaining adults. Immature parents (eg the borg) will never relinquish control or decision making and just simply be there to help when the chips fall... no immature parents will continue to chastise, criticize, harangue, and shun children who don't follow in the parents footsteps. This too, is pitiful mind-control.

    gambit ** wiping the sweat off his forehead, and feeling like he just let go of a ton of anger **

    Gary - you have a PM

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