What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat 583 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DJS


    I've stayed out of this discussion, as they violate one of my prime directives. But your post above, if read with an open mind free of religious programming and that god awful religious spin, would be all that anyone needed to cast religion and fairy tale gods away forever. Other than "god is going to 'fix' everything at some point in the future,' I don't see any theist arguments left regarding a loving, caring father/god who gives a fukk about his creation.

    If the god of theism exists, he is a Monster and his son a chip off the old block (Daddy's Lil' Monster).

    Well done.

  • prologos

    Lesson from the Tsunami on the purpose of life: If your life is a gift from a creator, one way or another, you have to pass it on or it is lost. you are responsible, so priorities the protection of it's fertile bearers. Natural laws will not be violated, never have been, and have served us well as a species to get here. Beyond that, as a human, be thankful, enjoy the extra perks, the luxuries that our times allow. stop whining. stop demanding more than you see that is already given. an ironclad promise that the laws are reliable, can work for and with you.

  • John_Mann

    My position regarding the purpose of existence of the universe (including the origin and problem of evil, of course) consists in analysing the amount of explanations we have about it. Basically there are 4 metaphysical explanations I find them very interesting and sums up the reasonings of humans about cosmogony.

    The first one is found in the Vedas and Upanishads. Hinduism explains that the ultimate realist is Brahmam (not Brahma). Brahmam is perceived by some as a personal entity (God) and by others as a reality. Everything comes directly from Brahmam so everything is part of Brahmam. The evil in this cosmogony is the illusion of not being part of Brahmam. So the purpose in life is to be free from this illusion (Moksha).

    The second one is from Buddhism that says the ultimate reality is Sunyata. Sunyata is a kind of "pregnant void". Buddhism defines as a total mystery why there's something else instead of just Sunyata. They're concerned in stopping the suffering produced by the illusion of separation from Sunyata. Sunyata allows the existence of a very quintessential existence without the Three Marks of Existence. They call this "existence" as Buddha nature. Evil is perceived quite the same as in Hinduism. Buddhism is very complex but IMHO is a kind of mystical Nihilism.

    The Greeks (and Romans) believed that there was always a kind of special matter. This quintessential matter is personified as Chaos (by Ovid). Chaos sometimes is referred as a God and sometimes as a place or reality. Chaos created all the things from itself. There's no concept of void in this theology. That's why Romans didn't used the concept of zero (there's no zero in Roman numerals).

    In Catholicism there's a mentality to embrace everything known by man.

    The term comes from a combination of Greek words Kata (concerning) and Holos (totality, university, etc).

    The opposite of this mentality is Heresy. Heresy comes from a word meaning preference, chosen things. In Heresy you just accept things that you pick and choose.

    The Catholic cosmogony starts with God being the only reality.

    At some point God first creates a reality separated from himself. God there's no potencial to be fulfilled so He created a "reality" with infinite potency to be fulfilled. God first creation is the Nihilo. In JWism there's a logical problem of Jesus being the first creation of Jehovah. If Jesus was the first creation, Jehovah created Jesus from himself and by consequence Jesus would be just a person "inside" Jehovah. The logical conclusion of JWism is they believe in a kind of "binity". I'm an atheist regarding this JW definition of God.

    The Nihil is the first sphere of reality surrounding God. This is the Christian Nihilism. Is an abyss or chasm that only God can trespass. Like a black hole that traps even light, we can think of Nihilo as being capable to trap black holes. This reality was created directly by God to be the exact opposite of Him. Is a lack of God state or reality. But it cannot sustain itself so it must be sustained by God.

    From this point, God creates everything from this void. The first Creatio Ex Nihilo is the pure spirits. They were created in fixed spheres of existence. Their existences are fixed in their spheres in relation to a concept called Glory. Glory is heuristically defined as how much close you are from God (Grace can be used in this definition too). The opposite of this measure is Sin or Fall (how far you're from God). These ranks of pure spirits is defined by Angelology. Michael the Archangel is a pure spirit who was directly elevated in Glory by God after defeating Satan (who was in a higher rank). Animals are fixed in Glory too.

    After God created (Ex Nihilo) the material universe and set natural laws to this reality (Big Bang). By evolution life aroused and humans appeared. This is the Christian Materialism.

    In a recent point in human history God directly created the first soul in a human. From this point God directly creates the souls in the offspring of this particular human (Adam). The human soul is immortal because it is Created Ex Nihilo.

    So in Catholic theology God directly created the Nihil, the Pure Spirits, the Big Bang and every Human Soul. Because these are direct creations they are substantially perfect and cannot be destroyed or perish without God's will. But the existence of all these direct creations need to be sustained by God.

    How evil fits and was created in this theology?

    The most accepted tradition in Catholicism is this:

    In some point God revealed to Pure Spirits that the Human Soul would fall from its purpose and it would be redeemed by God Itself.

    And the plan of Redemption will be God becoming a human being to save humankind.

    At this point a highly rank Pure Spirit rebelled against this God's will. He simply could not accept the implication of worship a human and "worse" God would have a human body from that point. The human nature would cross the Nihil and enter in the very nature of God. He said that if God wanted to be humiliated and wanted to take a nature from His creation in this plan He could better become an angel but not a human. Indeed Mary achieved the highest rank in Heavens, a human being the most close creature from God.

    Humans face a similar situation in the doctrine of Eucharist (explained by Aquinas using the Aristotle's theory of substance).

    Then for the first time the possibility of evil was used (like the possibility of jumping from a balcony in a building). This Pure Spirit could not support to live in a reality where God would have a human body. So he jumped in the only reality accepted for him. He jumped into the Nihil. He made a Columbus' Egg doing that and other Pure Spirits followed him and later other humans too. Now Satan could be in the highest rank far from God and not be fixed in position of achievement. And he's very good in digging more and more.

    Like is said in Latin: Corruptio Optimi Pessima (the corruption of the best is the worst of all).

    This is the metaphysical explanation that I accept for the origin of evil.

  • DJS

    Yeah, as I stated. Spin and the old "god will fix things in the end" nonsense. You DO know that all of these postulations of yours, JM, are nothing but made up fanciful conjecture designed to make religious beliefs somehow make sense in the face of the overwhelming evidence against it, don't you?

    Just because they have emanated from old men with a bit of education and credentials does not make them any less fanciful.

    We have heard all this stuff before. Ad nauseam. Continuing to believe it makes as much sense as believing in VIv's Unicorn Sparkle goddess.

  • looter

    DJS, you keep it up. Keep having that same evil lack of faith that will do nothing but cast you out of God's plans for ever. It is amazing how you and other people continue to say that God does not care to help us. But the truth is is that he does but obviously you guys don't care about him enough to take advantage of his plans for us because you're too busy saying things like you've been saying. It is very ridiculous and your lack of faith can only cause bad things to happen to your own life.

    All the trials and tribulations that are mentioned in the revelations are a test of how durable we are in our trust in the Lord. Most people in this forum should read that at least one more time to get a clear understanding of what is mentioned. Remember, it is not God's fault that we have all this suffering. It is man's fault and you are an example of blind blame and it's even worse on who you blame it on. If anything, you should be blaming it on the people here who calls all the badness on themselves for thinking that it is not their own fault. You don't realize that the best way for any human to have happiness is to trust in God and live every second of your life to make him and yourself happy. You're welcome for my wisdom.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Keep having that same evil lack of faith ... - having a lack of faith isn't 'evil'. Atheists readily accept that humans have a sense of right and wrong, have cultural norms, have standards of acceptable behaviour and have law.

    Nice try but no cigar ...

  • DJS


    Thank you for the encouragement. I will definitely keep it up as you suggest.

    And it turns me on when you call down evil on me. Is that from you or your insecure, vindictive blood thirsty god speaking? Or is there a difference?

    Yeah, makes me wanna worship her.

    More please.

  • John_Mann

    Here's a nice speech from Bishop Fulton Sheen about the metaphysical explanation of origin and mechanics of evil :


  • cofty

    I wonder if thoughtful Christians are embarrassed to be associated with believers like Looter.

  • slimboyfat

    Or if thoughtful atheists are embarrassed by atheists who go around insisting God has been disproved and believers must be either ignorant or dishonest.

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