Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek

by Wild_Thing 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • recovering

    I have a link to some information regarding Fed Franz's transcripts. Including scans of the actual transcripts.

  • sparrowdown

    So like all of WT's claims of "qualification" and legitmacy his "qualifications" as a "scholar" in Hebrew and bible greek were seriously pimped then. No surprises there.

  • Wild_Thing

    Oh recovering! Thank you, thank you! exactly what I was looking for!

  • recovering

    Your Welcome

    Glad I could help

  • TD

    Believe it or not, Ancient Greek and Latin are geeky hobbies in some circles and some of these people are very, very good without a lot of formal education.

    But regardless of how conversant someone is in a biblical language, that doesn't qualify them to be a Bible translator.

    There's more to it than that.

  • Diogenesister

    From the man who obtained the university of Cincinatti transcript

    The Greek Franz studied had a different grammar system than that of biblical Greek
  • Diogenesister
    Earnest Well I passed the junior year of the University, and I did not complete the third year. I left in April and the term terminated at the beginning of June.
    Q. What subjects did you have passes when you left the University?
    A. I had passed through Greek and Latin and I had also taken two terms in German.
    Q. Did you do Helennic Greek?
    A. Yes, as well as odined Greek, the Greek of the New Testament.

    I strongly suggest you read the link above, the Cincinatti transcript was obtained by this author. Franz was a rank lier he fid a 2 hour class in biblical greek. 2 hours. He didnt dream someone would dig up his uni trancript. I knew I had read this but couldnt remember where.

    Bungi bill whatever the case was about the fact remained he had no scholarly training in hebrew.

  • Wonderment

    vienne: Examples of poor grammar? Use of reflexive pronouns, especially in the OT. ie: He himself.

    This example is an indicator that the translator was translating from the Hebrew text (not from an English version), because the Hebrew in some cases brings out emphasis by doubling on pronouns.

    Leviticus 5:2,3 for instance, has the literal reading: "from him" "and he" (pronominal suffix & personal pronoun) back to back, which the NWT renders as "he himself" The NWT translation is not alone doing so.

    The NWT 2013 has done away with many of those Hebraisms compared to pre-2013 NWT. Another example of Hebrew emphasis is clearly seen at Ezequiel 18:4, particularly in the early versions.

    There is a group of people who like those distinctions brought out in their Bibles. Others do not. That's what's good about the English language which has so many bible versions opposed to other languages that don't have as many choices to bicker about.

  • vienne

    The issue isn't Hebrew grammar but English grammar. Reflexive pronouns are not best grammar in American English. I did not suggest that Franz couldn't translate; I suggested his English language word choices were not best grammar.

  • Earnest

    Diogenesister : I strongly suggest you read the link above,

    I read the link above with interest as I had never seen the transcripts before. The transcripts are not entirely clear to my eyes but I can make out that he did Elementary Greek in 1911-1912 (both seminars), three courses in Greek in 1912-1913 (both seminars), and three courses in Greek (including New Testament) in 1913-1914 (both seminars).

    If the New Testament course was only 4 hours (2 hours in each seminar) it would seem to me that a lot of study and research must have been required of the students outside of those hours in order to obtain passing grades. If Franz was able to teach himself biblical Hebrew it should not be a surprise that he could capitalise on the foundation provided by the University of Cincinnati.

    He had already taken Latin when he was at Woodward High School so was not new to the study of ancient languages. You may find this link to Woodward High School, which opened in 1910, to be of interest.

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