Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek

by Wild_Thing 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    maybe he read lumberjack...and got his shirt fashion from there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Raymond Franz says (I think in ISofCF) that he observed his uncle reading Hebrew manuscripts for hours on end at the museum. He could have been faking, but it seems unlikely.

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    I don't know if hearsay evidence of seeing someone at a museum qualifies as evidence of formal qualification.

    Circumstantial, at best

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister

    They are not particularly impressive grades for 1st year undergraduate. I believe he started the second year and I know for a fact he didn't study koine Greek- the Greek of the new testament- at ALL. Merely 2 semesters of classical Greek.

    Primary sources are available as I know the university of cincinatti was contacted. Also remember he admitted under oath he could not translate one verse of the bible in the Scottish trial in 1954, the Douglas Walsh trial.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Raymond Franz says (I think in ISofCF) that he observed his uncle reading Hebrew manuscripts for hours on end at the museum. He could have been faking, but it seems unlikely.

    Again

    Also remember he admitted under oath he could not translate one verse of the bible in the Scottish trial in 1954, the Douglas Walsh trial.


  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    A word of caution here!

    During the Walsh trial in 1954, FW Franz never said that he "could" not translate a bible verse, he said that he "would" not do so. We are talking about two different verbs - could and would.

    Furthermore, when you read the context of what led up to those remarks, Franz was probably within his rights to do (and say) what he did. What was on trial there was NOT his abilities to translate the Bible. That had Fanny Adams to do with what was on the line that day. This trial was about whether JWs were a "church", whether their rank and file qualified as "ministers", and from that, whether this then should exempt their "ministers" from Military Service. Franz's knowledge of Hebrew was a red herring that some [email protected]$$ of a lawyer was attempting to introduce.

    PS: In case anybody was wondering, I am no fan of the late Crazy Fred!

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Diogenesister : I know for a fact he didn't study koine Greek- the Greek of the new testament- at ALL.

    In the Walsh trial Fred Franz gave the following testimony regarding his courses at Cincinnati University:

    91A – 92D

    Q. You yourself are multi-lingual.

    A. Yes.

    Q. When did you go to the University?

    A. In 1911, and I continued there until April 1914.

    Q. Did you graduate?

    A. No, I did not. I left the University in 1914 because I realised, according to the Scriptures, that that was the crucial year which was to be marked by the outbreak of a great trouble, and I realised that the ministerial work was the most important thing in the world to do…

    Q. What subjects were you studying at Cincinnati University?

    A. I was studying in the Liberal Arts College and among other things taking up Chemistry, English, Latin, Greek and German.

    Q. Had you done any Hebrew in the course of your University work?

    A. No, I had not, but in the course of my editorial work, my special research work for the president of the Society, I found it was very necessary to have a knowledge of Hebrew, and so I undertook a personal study of that.

    Q. What subjects did you hold passes in when at Cincinnati University?

    A. Well I passed the junior year of the University, and I did not complete the third year. I left in April and the term terminated at the beginning of June.

    Q. What subjects did you have passes when you left the University?

    A. I had passed through Greek and Latin and I had also taken two terms in German.

    Q. Did you do Helennic Greek?

    A. Yes, as well as odined Greek, the Greek of the New Testament.

    176A

    Q. Are you familiar with those sources [from which the New World translation was made]?

    A. Yes, in the University of Cincinnati we studied the famous Westcote Edition of the Greek Text.

  • vienne
    vienne

    Franz was asked not to translate a verse from Greek but back into Greek. I do not know of any Greek scholar willing to do that. However, the NWT is even in its new version, very poor. The English grammar is wretched.

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    vienne,

    Are you sure it was his knowledge of Greek that was questioned in that way? I thought that Franz was challenged to translate Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 from English back into Hebrew?

  • zeb
    zeb

    It seems to me that jw assume to walk past a plant nursery is to know all about there is to know of botany.

    Was it Time magazine that inteviewed Franz and came away saying he was crazy as.? Anyone with the actual quote please. I would like to read why the journalist said that statement.

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