Did Jesus pre exist? Yes or no?
Jesus did pre exist because he created ALL things as it says in J
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
The historian Richard Carrier has presented a compelling case Jesus didn't exist for some years now. It has made biblical historians so angry he had to prove it with a mathematical method he developed; so far nobody has disproven his argument AFAIK, or even tried to.
you can read all about it here:
His calculations provide bounds that Jesus exist between 30% and less than 1%. Good enough for me!
Unshackle the chains can I ask, please.
Is Antony Buzzard saying, in effect, that " the word" was God's plan? That Jesus *did not* exist before he was begotten in Mary's womb. That he was part of GOD.
I always thought, if you existed for eons, had that wisdom, then became human and withstood enormous cruelty yet maintained your integrity, as commendable as that is, it would be much easier to accomplish than had you *just* been created, as a human. Death for 3 days wouldn't seem so fearful, either.
So he is saying not only that Jesus is not the Archangel Micheal ( pretty much proven) but did not pre-exist at all. Except in God's plan ???
JHine The adding of "else" in John is utterly false, isn't it?!!
It is more than likely that the myths and legends of the Gospels and elsewhere in the N.T are based on a real Historical figure, or more than one, an amalgam perhaps.
That person or (persons) was like us, not in existence before conception, and not in existence after death, apart from living on in myth and legend, and making an odd appearance on people's Breakfast Toast !
What a wide range of beliefs! The Word promises that one day we shall all know Truth. In the meanwhile we all form experience based opinions of both polarities. Which means that when the time comes many will be happily satisfied while others will be pleasantly (or not so pleasantly) surprised.
No matter. The story has a very happy ending. We'll all be made whole.
Of course Jesus pre-existed. Just like Jupiter pre-existed as Zeus. Jesus was the latest telling of stories that existed before his story was invented.
The Ptolemy 's created a god (Serapis) so they could try to united their empire under one religion.
The Romans did it years later using the same God but adding some traits from other popular gods . Then took it farther by outlawing all other religions.