Did Jesus pre exist? Yes or no?

UnshackleTheChains

When I first became a witness, I always found the teaching about Jesus being the arch angel Michael hard to swallow. I did however believe that Jesus pre existed as a master worker alongside God (the first of his creation).

But now everything is brought into question having watched Anthony Buzzard explain why Jesus could not have pre existed as it is impossible to pre exist yourself. Also the fact that it all sounds contradictory to suggest, he was already alive millions of years before he was transferred to Mary's womb to be born as a human - the son of man?

I have attached the video of Anthony Buzzard discussing his thoughts on Jesus pre existence. Please note, I am not trying to promote his views, but simply find his reasoning making a lot of sense and very interesting

https://youtu.be/eY8wY5i-9-M

UnshackleTheChains

I meant to include this video also

https://youtu.be/QnQNZbbDSuE

Chook

No way

pale.emperor

I dont believe the bible - BUT treating it as a work of fiction as i would The Lord Of The Rings or something like that... he definitely IS NOT the Archangel Michael. Anthony Buzzard is very good at proving that. I find the Jesus being God idea to be contradictory. For every "proof" a trinitarian gives me i can give another proof showing that he cant be. I think the original teaching was that he wasn't god, but as the Jesus cult grew people started making bigger claims as they got carried away. Next thing you know people think he actually was god.

As for his per-existance... i'd say no. If i were reading the story for the first time without any preconceived ideas i think it's clear that he was a man who became divine. And that the example is that we all can be divine too if we copy him.

Crazyguy

Jesus was a knew invented god modeled after Serapis, if fact his cult was the start of Christianity. They added elements of other gods like Dionysus and Mithra to the mix to gain followers. Serapis was already a mix of Egyptian and Greek gods and they just took it a step farther with Jesus. Most of Christianity is modeled after the Egyptian religions.

Some of the elements of the uprising in Jerusalem and some of the people involved have been written in to the gospels to give them some elements of reality but none the less Jesus the deity was and is a fabrication.

UnshackleTheChains

Jesus was a knew invented god modeled after Serapis, if fact his cult was the start of Christianity. They added elements of other gods like Dionysus and Mithra to the mix to gain followers. Serapis was already a mix of Egyptian and Greek gods and they just took it a step farther with Jesus. Most of Christianity is modeled after the Egyptian religions

From a Trinitarian perspective, I would agree with 'some' of the above.

From a non Trinitarian perspective, Jesus /Yeshua fulfilled all the prophecies foretold about the coming Messiah. Many eye witnesses saw Jesus and the miracles he performed. Christianity could never have spread so quickly in the first century given the impact he had made during his short life here on earth.

jhine

My first thought is Genesis 1:1 " ln the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth "

John 1:3 (Of Jesus) " All things were made through Him , and without Him NOTHING was made that was made . The world was made through Him "

ln Genesis God spoke and what He spoke came into being . Jesus is called the Logos , the Word of God .

Note in John without Jesus NOTHING was made that was made . So Jesus was not made . The WT adds " else " in there to completely alter the meaning , which is very naughty . So if Jesus was not made then He always existed .

Jan

Vanderhoven7

Biblically speaking....yes....and uniquely so.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 8:58
"Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

John 17:4-6, 24

…4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed. 6I have revealed Your name to those You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours; You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word....Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Philippians 2:5-7

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who,existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.…

Ray Frankz

I think that was he wanted to say in the transfiguration acount.

he glorified with moses and elijah.

God used a possibly special angel to communicate to Moses and Elijah, when he made the transfiguration I understand Jesus saying "hey guys, can you see it now? It was me! I was here to Israel all the time. I AM THE MESSIAH"

UnshackleTheChains

John 1:3 (Of Jesus) " All things were made through Him , and without Him NOTHING was made that was made . The world was made through Him "

ln Genesis God spoke and what He spoke came into being . Jesus is called the Logos , the Word of God .

Note in John without Jesus NOTHING was made that was made . So Jesus was not made . The WT adds " else " in there to completely alter the meaning , which is very naughty . So if Jesus was not made then He always existed

Hi Jan

Please take the time to listen to Anthony Buzzard discussing his explanation of John chapter 1.

To me it makes sense and ties in with Matthew, mark and lukes gospel account of a Jewish Jesus, the son of man, the foretold Messiah. God's word and wisdom now expressed through Jesus.

https://youtu.be/CkvIZSpqR_4

Also in regards to Michael the archangel. Twice in Hebrews chapter 1, it asks the question 'to which one of the angels did he (God) ever say : you are my son, today, I have become your father......

The answers are so simple, yet the word of God has become so complicated because of mens interpretations.

Did Jesus pre exist? Yes or no?

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