Spells, Wiccans, and Witchcraft

by SpunkyChick 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

plmkrzy

Rem,
like I said I don’t “need” to argue anything about it and I would not even compare the LDS to Jews.
A better comparison would be for example:
A new religion has been established and recognized by the government as "a religion" and they call themselves, “Gods Witnesses”.
They go from door to door preaching about good news and worship a God named Jehovah.
They believe in Armageddon and a new system where people will live forever on earth in a paradise and there will be 144,000 rulers over this paradise with gods son whose name is Jesus Christ. They believe Jesus Christ is also Michael the Arch Angle.
They believe that Gods son Jesus returned in 1914.
They believe we are living in the last days.
They believe only 144,000 people will be resurrected to heaven and the rest who have died will be resurrected to an earthly life in “the New System of things” and they will be perfect humans and live forever.
They are not to be confused with “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. They do not meet three times a week in “Kingdom Halls”, but they instead meet three times a week in “Truth Yards”
They base their faith on what is written in the Old Testament and a New World Translation of the Greek Scriptures written by The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. But they are not "Jehovah's Witnesses"
They’re faith and beliefs and practices are only 10 years old. Most "Gods Witnesses" accept this and completely believe this. Just ask them.
All "modern" day Wiccan’s in North America are, are young offshoots of an old craft/art/religion/faith/belief/ etc. True, various branches of "modern" North Americans want to believe they have "New Light" or even something unique and that is fine and dandy but the fact of the matter is they have done nothing more then tag along and adopt something as old as rocks. To deny that is of no importance one way or the other. Many do protest because they want to be unique unto themselves. That is fine.
If you cared to do some actual research and dig deep enough you might find it easier to understand. Just accepting what "young whipper-snappers" tell you is not research. Nor is simply reading a few books that some have written on the subject "research" plum
Satanus

Ravyn
maybe it just did not mean anything to him to be rich AND powerful.
Many mystics have come to feel this way about riches.
It seems that you can only have one or the other
This may well be the case. Those who get into the other dimension in the true sense, as compared to showmen/women (think sylvia brown) fall down in their abilities in this dimension.
Since we likely came from that dimension to this one for some reason(s), i sometimes wonder if there is much importance in delving into the other one while we are in this one. As a hobby, it is fine. But people who accomplish much here are often focused on the material realm, many are totally free of religion of any kind. They stand firmly on their own two feet.
I make these observations not w the aim of dicouraging your practice (i plan to read spare's main book), but to test my above hypothesis and it's boundaries. Thanks for your input.
SS
rem

Plum,
like I said I don’t “need” to argue anything about it and I would not even compare the LDS to Jews

And I'm sure there are many witches and pagans who would not even compare wicca to their beliefs.
There is no disputing that 'Wicca' was invented in the 1950's by Gerald Gardner. There was no 'Wicca' before this. There is no unbroken line of ancient 'Wicca' practices, traditions, rituals, or beliefs. You could, however, say paganism and perhaps witchraft is ancient.
Your analogy of a clone religion doesn't apply in the face of historical fact. Wicca is not a clone of any ancient pagan religion. It is a conglomeration of various ancient practices and some new ones - much the same how Mormonism is different from Christianity, though it obviously has common roots.
http://www.mythome.org/Wicca.html
No need to argue... I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it... it's just not ancient.
rem
plmkrzy

I can remember and still do know LOTS of Jehovah's Witnesses who are as bullheaded as you are and will stand their ground believing they are the one and only true religion.
That is fine, I believe I know better.
The same way that I know more about this subject then you do at this point in time.
You may learn more down the road and if you do then good for you and if you do not that is no big deal either. I can see trying to talk to you about this subject would be the same as trying to reason with a staunch JW about their religion not being what they as active JWs believe it to be either. Same exact thing. A JW will argue until they turn blue in the face that they know more about their own religion then the one pointing out reasons why they just might not know as much as they think they do.
Thanks for the link but I plenty of my own and do not need it.
plum. peace.
Ravyn

SS:
I personally believe that as we evolve thru each reincarnation we get closer to the dimension of spirit and so at this time in human history there are alot of us who are basically finishing up. The memories come back and we get ready for the next big thing. I don't think I am coming back here again. I just feel like I am done with it. The last 7 years of my life have been spent on helping others, and i almost feel as if I am living on borrowed time. I had the third near-death experience in this life back in 1996 and it changed me so much I can't even begin to explain. My life since that time has been like tying up lose ends.
Lurk:
the Satanists you refer to are as phony as a Wiccan pedigree. LaVey did not believe in an entity called Satan regardless of what these new breed of 'Luciferians' wish to believe(kinda like Wiccan pedigrees--sorry couldn't resist). LaVey used the word Satan to shock. He was a showman, even worked in a circus sideshow for years prior to his establishing a religion. His daughter and her husband wanted a god to worship(LaVey was an atheist) so they started the Temple of Set. LaVey left his two daughter's mother and took up with a mistress and there has been bad blood ever since. Since he died in 1999, the whole organization(Church of Satan) has been in chaos---fitting, I think he is laughing his a$$ off about from wherever he is right now. His rituals and so-called worship of Satan were meant to be cathartic sarcasm for the generation pre-Vatican 2 who were coming into the new world of sexual liberation and feminism. It was all about power and self-esteem. His books- The Satanic Bible and The Satanic Witch are two of the most eye-opening empowering books you can read, and I highly reccommend it. Quick reads too. Irreverent humor and sarcasm and some real witty gems hidden among the craziness. If you like The Onion or enemies.com you will love LaVey's stuff. and you will see that anyone who calls them selves a Satanist who actually believes in an Evil (or misunderstood) Being is full of $h!t.
REM and Plummy,
please don't argue this point--it only makes everyone look bad. REM is not going to give you any respect because he does not believe in paganism. And Plum--I don't want to hurt your feelings or piss you off, BUT---Wicca is a modern religion based on many pagan traditions and most of them are only guessed at because pagan religions were purposely NOT written down--it diminished the power and left them open for the uninitiated to play with. That does not in my opinion make Wicca anything less, just don't fall into the same trap as the xtian fundies. Intellectual dishonesty is the number one reason why witchcraft is not accepted--there is no unbroken line of pedigree and witchcraft is in opposition to that kind of thinking anyway! Notice I said witchcraft--not Wicca, I am not picking on Wicca only. Witchcraft is a living, growing, evolving thing. It does not need temporal authority like a line of popes and apostles to be valid. And the Tree of Life is kabalah. The World Tree is Norse. I am sure there are many more. All gods are one God and all goddesses are one Goddess. And the only sin is ignorance--so what good would it be to convert the whole world if they all travel down the same path in ignorance? We all are where we are supposed to be, and if we stray, we know it and we either live with the discontentment or we find out where we need to be.
Plum you are very sincere and I hope I have not offended you. But REM is also as sincere and he is not lying about the facts, he just is presenting them without the faith that you have. You are both right. Truth is much bigger than one single person can grasp. we all get our piece of it.
Ravyn
rem

REM is not going to give you any respect because he does not believe in paganism.

Perhaps I'm giving off the wrong impression here. My facts/point of view were not intended to disrespect anyone or anyone's beliefs. In fact, if I were any type of deist, I'd probably be some type of pantheist as pagans are (which Wicca is almost like a sect of). I'm just not, but I think it's cool that others are pagans or witches or Wicca.
If a Mormon or a JW were to tell me that their religion was as ancient as Christianity I'd tell them the same thing, though I'd respect their right to their own beliefs. Of course, if my views are in error I'd happily be corrected, but I would need some type of evidence and facts contrary to what I know to change my view.
I'm seriously not trying to attack people on this board. I don't know if it's my style/reputation or if some others just automatically take any type of criticism/alternate viewpoint as an attack or lack of respect. Maybe it's a combination of the two? I dunno. I sincerely apologize if I've been rude.
rem
acsot

Since we likely came from that dimension to this one for some reason(s), i sometimes wonder if there is much importance in delving into the other one while we are in this one. As a hobby, it is fine. But people who accomplish much here are often focused on the material realm, many are totally free of religion of any kind. They stand firmly on their own two feet.

SS: OMG! Just had a light bulb moment - I don't know if saying that this "fits me exactly" is the right way of describing my feelings, but you have just cleared up so many questions/wonderings/doubting about a spiritual realm and our place in it !! THANK YOU!
Satanus

You're welcome.
SS
plmkrzy

And Plum--I don't want to hurt your feelings or piss you off, BUT---Wicca is a modern religion based on many pagan traditions and most of them are only guessed at because pagan religions were purposely NOT written down

rayvan thank you for being concerned about my feelings and no you are not hurting them at all. Believe it or not as you may, I know exactly where you are coming from and you are correct about things not all being written down. Most of it is passed down through generations and thats where all of the various offshoots come from. I'll just leave it there.
rem
I am not angry with you at all but I did allow myself to get frustrated a bit. I am not speaking as a wiccan btw my roots can be traced to the 1500's. Well That is as far as I have gone.
lurk

i think we live to delude our selves ,life seems to be creating a bubble in which you can survive the realities of life

Spells, Wiccans, and Witchcraft

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