Where is the evidence

by KGB 90 Replies latest jw friends

  • little witch
    little witch

    KGB

    I know you feel passionatly about your beliefs......

    Instead of arguing with people, and being determined to ''win'' you simply need to understand that

    religion is personal. Do you understand?

    No body doubts your personal relationship with your lord.

    But the world is a big place. There are many different peoples, and it is not our job to ''convert'' people to our god.

    What matters in the end is that we live in harmony with others....

    All the religious leaders through the centuries, that have had enduring wisdom, have one thing in common, and that is to be kind to one another.

    Remember the good Samaritan story? The point was, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RELIGION, SHOW HUMAN COMPATION.

    There must be hundreds of religions around the world, and everyone on the planet have the same wants, needs, and desires...

    We are all the same, all human. We don't all have to be identical, and ''feel'' the same way. No one is damned for difference in opinion.

    If you can come to understand that, then you will understand why some people are put off by you...

    Try to work on that.... Just because everyone doesnt share your opinion, doesn't make them less valuable in society. If you cling to that ideology, then you haven't truly left the JW's.

    I know athiest, wiccans, christians, jews, muslims, and agnostics who can handle their own, without taking away from others who don't share their veiwpoints.

    Please, study up on the ''crusades'' and understand how this kind of gung-ho theology can mess things up, for centuries....

  • Mary
    Mary

    This question is as old as mankind itself. I believe in God, but I cannot "prove" that He exists, just as an athiest cannot prove that God doesn't exist. I look around at creation and at the marvelous wonder that is the human body and mind and I say "I don't believe this came about by accident" whereas an athiest will say "I believe this came about by accident."

    Since neither the believer nor the unbeliever of today were present when all this came about, and since God choses not to reveal Himself physically to mankind, then there's no absolute definitive proof one way or another.

  • KGB
    KGB

    Little witch,

    Don't get me wrong here but it seems that I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. You see I can go back on post from the past where others have said things that others did not like and they also retalliated. It seems to be ok for some to criticize but not okay for others. Maybe it's that when I return the criticisum its probably a little more harsh than others. It really does not matter to me if someone is put off by me as you say because everyone cannot agree with everyone. We are all going to say things that others don't like or agree with. Oh well I can't please the whole world and Im not going to try either.

    Some have criticized me merely because they thought that my question was a stupid question is that really fair to do to someone? I`m sure even you have asked a dumb question ! I on the other hand do not feel there is such a thing, the dumb question is the one that did not get asked. My intentions were not to come here and argue with anyone as I have seen on many different post that there are a few that love to criticize others just for the pure pleasure of doing so. Some people can sit idle and say and do nothing about it on the other hand I choose to defend what I feel is right.

    I have read it said here if you can't stand the heat then get out of the fire. If you dont like what my question is then don't reply. I think that is more humanly than to criticize someone. You know I am not all at fault here and don't try to make it mine either. Besides Simon has made it very clear for those who decide to do so. Im sorry if you dont like the things I say there are many post here that I disagree with but you dont here me criticizing others about it. I personally think that there are to many self righteous people here and to many that point the fingers but dont look at them selves.

    Im nobody perfect and I fault too just like the other guys so leave me the hell alone. If ya got nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all cause I don't want to hear it anymore. I'm really getting tired of this place and hearing how I am always the prick well they're are many more here that are just like me so those who wish to criticize others just because they are a little different than you then do so but don't do it here Im tired. I am about to leave this board because I am so tired of the crap it has become not an enjoyable place to be anymore.....SO LONG

  • gumby
    gumby

    Your leaving.....again?

    Didn't you JUST post this less than a week ago?

    After I said I was leaving this board I did a lot of soul searching. I dug way down deep inside. You see I am a Christian and that makes me a very happy person inside as well as outside. I had to be reminded that Jesus taught to love your neighbor. He did not say only the ones who believe like you he said love all your fellowman. Not to love what they do but the fact that everyone is just like me in every way.

    So now here I am just a fool and one who acted selfishly here with some of you and again I am truly sorry for that. I know that it is by example that we show others the reality and truth in Christ. I failed in doing so with all of you.

    I want to be a friend to all of you here and I vow not to act selfishly again towards any of you as we all have our opinions about things and we all have the right to share that. We all may not agree with one another but thats a normal thing. Besides you know the saying "opinions are like arseholes everybody has one" (LOL) So now that I got this off my chest I will also not do something else too. I will not argue with you about anything, I will simply state how I feel about something or express my feelings but I will not argue with anyone here, I hate that with a passion. Arguements brings anger with brings hate and it is not me or even part of me to be that way. It's not healthy. Discussion is healthy but not anger.

    I'm not looking for pity in this post or sympathy I purely just want you all to know that I enjoy being here and I enjoy sharing either my thoughts or beliefs. Simply put ? I'm not leaving again (LOL)

    I want to thank all of you for your warm goodbyes as well as your warm welcome back and I really feel the need to be here. So get used to me. Actually at one time I was someone else here but I got a virus and I did'nt know where it came from and I lost everything on my computer as I had to wipe my hard drive. So when I reloaded all my sites I changed all my user names and passwords. Can you guess who I am?

    Well God Bless all of you believers and Non- believers as well.

    ( I didn't know you were somebody else before you were KGB)

    Gumby

  • AwakenedAndFree
    AwakenedAndFree
    I am about to leave this board because I am so tired of the crap it has become not an enjoyable place to be anymore.....SO LONG

    Dear KGB,

    Please don't leave the board ! You will be missed.

    1CORINTHIANS 4:12,13: (12):"and to toil, working with our hands. When being reviled, we bless, when being persecuted, we bear up.(13): when being defamed, we entreat, we have become as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things, until now."

    Christian Love.

    AAF

  • gumby
    gumby
    we have become as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things, until now."

    How lovely awakeandfree,

    Implying that we view KGB of being "refuse"...and "offscouring". That is what you are implying isn't it?

    You also are implying that others are persecuting him. Why....because he is a christian?

    If I remember correctly it was HIM who made verbal threats at least 3 times in the last week. He said he would like to take some to the back 40 to teach them a lesson, then he said if some were stasnding in front of him there would be a fistfight, then he called some bugs and said you should squish a bug. All within a week he said this after apologizing twice in the same week. Physical threats are cheap and chickenshit.

    Gumby

  • Dansk
    Dansk
    Since neither the believer nor the unbeliever of today were present when all this came about, and since God chooses not to reveal Himself physically to mankind, then there's no absolute definitive proof one way or another.

    Mary, you reveal yourself immediately by stating "God chooses" and by starting "God and Himself with capital letters." I can fully understand how one can look all around us and say "This couldn’t all have come about by chance!" I, too, have difficulty in believing in "chance" as it is beyond my comprehension -- so I just accept everything is here but cannot prove whether God exists or he doesn’t!

    The difference between us though, Mary, is that you, and AAF, take the Bible as being the absolute word of God. But Mary and AAF, it isn’t the absolute word of God and one can prove it if one is prepared to research. We know, for example, that the Bible was originally never considered inspired and that many books that it originally contained have been removed and many that were originally considered spurious are now in it!

    Most people feel they must believe in something – and I must confess to having an empty feeling on occasion after finding all my earlier beliefs have gone right out the window! Nevertheless, I have to be honest with MYSELF – and blind faith is just as dangerous, in my opinion, as being an ardent JW.

    With reference to Adam and Eve and Creation, AAF said:

    Something terrible happened: They both sinned against Jehovah God. They lost the perfect bond of union they enjoyed with their Creator. Their sin was acquired through disobedience. As a result of their sin, all mankind inherited imperfection: We, humans, are all imperfect. Our human bodies are full of anomalies: congenital malformations and mental disorders are examples of these. Our bodies and minds deteriorate, age and die.

    (AAF are you still a JW as you still use ‘Jehovah God’?)

    OK, AAF, so something terrible happened because Adam and Eve sinned – so why did God destroy all the dinosaurs (in fact, what were they here for)? Why do cats, dogs, budgerigars, rabbits, guinea pigs, etc., also die of tumours and other painfully debilitating diseases? Did they sin, too?

    What kind of a benevolent God, our so-called Creator, would have animals suffer so terribly if THEY haven’t sinned? What kind of God would allow women to take hold of their children’s hands as they go to be gassed? Do you know that recent reports have, not 20,000,000 Russians being killed in WWII, but 27,000,000. Why did God allow it to happen?

    AAF also stated:

    It is Jehovah God's promise to restore mankind to perfection, as well He gives the gift of everlasting life to those who love HIM and His Son Jesus Christ.

    AAF, it is a F-A-C-T that YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah God have NEVER existed except in the minds of groups of people searching for a national identity and/or mind control. Therefore, if Jehovah God can be PROVEN to have never existed then don’t you see what that does to the rest of your statement about his son?

    If you people want to believe in God, that’s fine. But to quote scripture as though it is the infallible word of God and sacrosanct is demeaning and an insult to those of us who have high morals but do not share your misguided dogma. Can you not realise that if you were born a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Taoist or into some other non-Christian religion you would NOT be so passionate about expressing the Bible as God’s word? That if you were born a Jew you wouldn’t accept the Christian Greek scriptures? What makes your Bible better than the books of the religions mentioned?

    I seriously question if some of you people have really left the JW mind-set! Please believe me when I say I’m not knocking your faith in God, but to come here and state the likes of "John 3:16 says this, it’s in the Bible so it must be true" is no different to going around knocking on doors and stating that if it’s in the Watchtower it’s true!

    I think

    U.G. Krishnamurti was absolutely right when he said: "A messiah is the one who leaves a mess behind him in this world"

    Dansk

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    Earlier it was stated that it was up to the believer to prove the existence of God. Surely if you believe God does not exist the same applies to you, provide the proof he doesn't.

    To say he doesn't exist because some organsation who claims to be Gods, got their dates of 607/1914 wrong does not provide proof God does not exist.

    There seems to be a mindset among some ex-JW's that because the WT organisation is wrong or had an effect on their lives, they have to prove that every other organisation/church etc, and the Bible must all be wrong as well.

    If that were so then I must have the excuse to do so, seeing that my wife and daughters have not spoken or had contact with me for the last 3 years because I left. So should I not hate God for doing this to me or the man-made organisation that did.

    How come I never see anything about say Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucious etc, being wrong. Everyone seems to love quoting from them, those enigmatic phrases "If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound, when no one is there." They all run round saying how wonderful and profound it is. Is it any better than saying "Love your nieghbour as yourself."

    Someone wrote earlier that their wife was discovering how many differents things from other religions where similar to Christianity. Isn't that something the WT have been pointing out for years, about Christianitys "pagan" roots. Does that make the WT right about everything else?

    I've been trying to find a reference , but can't find it. But it goes like this a well known atheist went to see a Jewish theologian , Rabbi named Bauber (I think) The atheist demanded that the Rabbi prove God existed, the Rabbi said not a word, just carried on writing. The atheist thinking he had won got up to go as he got to the door the Rabbi said "Prove He doesn't exist". The atheist still does not believe in God, but he said , that Rabbi's question has been in his mind everyday for 40 years and he still can't answer it.

    Even after the fact that the WT has destroyed my family and split it in two, I have three children who live with me. I did not lose my belief in God. In fact I would say its stronger now than when in the JW's, because I now believe I deal with Him, not some organisation that says I have to go through them to get to God.

    I have also a son (27) and daughter (21) both DA'd JW's who have become Christians. To see the change in them over the last couple of years has been tremendous, from young people with a lot of anger in them, to confident outgoing people, full of life. We are now closer to each other than ever we were as JW's.

    At the church we attend I have seen peoples lives changed by God. Drug addicts, alcoholics etc changed. Even those with no problems like that have had lives changed and its effected others around them. A lady became a Christian last November, her mother came to see what had made such a change in her daughters life. The daughter went from being a "right misery" to someone full of life and happiness. The mother has recently become a Christian also.

    Its hard to put in words something you feel inside, like trying to describe "love" and that many of you will just shrug it off as the ravings of some weirdo. (yes you will)

    So just because the Watchtower made a mess of YOUR life. Just because a group of old men in Brooklyn got YOU to believe what they wanted you to believe. Don't think every ex-JW thinks the same way and needs to prove the non-existence of God.

    What we need to do is prove the non-existence of an organisation that claims to be "Gods only channel of communication to man" and that by being a WT slave you will be saved.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Earlier it was stated that it was up to the believer to prove the existence of God. Surely if you believe God does not exist the same applies to you, provide the proof he doesn't.

    Nope. The christian god is defined in such a way as to be untestable. It is simply not possible to disprove his existence.

    If I claim that a fourth dimensional being is responsible for all of the paranormal experiences people claim to have, on whom does the burden of proof lie? Do I say becuase you cannot DISPROVE it then it therefore must be true? No, you and everyone else would demand that *I* prove my case. We have no way of disproving that fourth dimensional beings exist, but that doesn't make my statement any more valid.

    Inability to disprove existence does not strengthen the argument that it does exist. In fact in my opinion it makes it even less likely to exist. When something is defined in a way to be untestable to science, I get really suspicious.

    My atheism has absolutely nothing to do with the WTS screwing with me religiously. Actually, I would have become atheist much sooner if I could have broken away from the organization more quickly than I did.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Gordy,

    Did you actually read my posts in this thread?

    Bradley

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