by KGB 90 Replies latest jw friends
If I tell you there are aliens living on Jupiter, and you cannot disprove it, does that mean there are aliens living on Jupiter?
Obviously, you should not have to disprove my statement. How can a person prove something or someone does not exist? Rather, logic dicates that I would have to prove the aliens exist.
The same reasoning applies to God.
drwtsn32,
I would appreciate your thoughts on my post above.
Thanks,
IW
The Bible is NOT THE word of God - But rest assured "God" does exist.
We could go around all day on the 'things around us must have a Designer' stuff. Some say complex things must have a Designer, some say that evolution can produce the same things, given enough time and natural selection. I think that the bottom line is that accpetance of the existence of God is an article of faith. One could even argue that God wants it to be an article of faith, given the fact that he just doesn't come out and tell humans audibly that He created all things.
Interesting Question KGB.... May I ask what YOU believe? and then may I ask (at the risk of sounding confrontational but not my intention). How does what one believes about "the dweller" in whatever form it may exist.... fit in with what another believes? I ask because I have observed.... that throughout history, the conflict is never about the actual "god figure".... but about making a group(s) all believe the same thing. Wars, "holocaust", deaths by millions... all because of a difference of belief in that which is called GOD.
If you are Jewish, you must worship and believe this way.
If you are christian... same
muslim...same.......or insert any denomination.
I just notice that whenever someone asks a question of this nature, they... and those who answer it... seem to "wish"(hope) that someone else believes the same, sort of a way of confirming or something. I myself have a hard time articulating what I believe as far as a deity or supreme being is concerned. I seem to feel a connection to an infinite being.... but wonder if it may just be "the higher part of my own concience"???? There is certainly no factual evidence. Even "science" is a system of geussing. Anyone?
What if you all go to heaven and find out that God IS a pink elephant/unicorn?
Then we will all be in shoOo much trouble.
Brummie
PS< KGB, even if you proved it no one would believe if they are not inclined that way and vice versa, if creation doesnt speak for itself then the problem is not yours anymore.
Let me rephrase this question. I want to know why you who were familiar with bible teachings for so many years, you went around and taught others about the bible by knocking on doors but now most of you have no faith in God, in Jesus and in church. I realize and understand the bitterness towards the borg for they have decieved you as well as I, but what caused you to loose your faith in God?
A few of you seem to enjoy picking on me and to be honest ? when you do your not going to get a oh thats okay thank you for your hurting and insulting words from me. NO ! when you insult me or my integrity which to be honest I think a few of you lack. I am goping to kick some crap right back at ya. If you was here at my face with your insults there would be some fist fighting going on. I don`t tolerate people who are full grown acting like littel children. If you don`t like my post and you don`t like what I have to say then dont post to it, you can just go on and discuss your anal sex discussions which I can see some of you really enjoy talking about.
When I first came to this site a couple of years ago, people were much more friendly. And it seemed to be powered by still yet Christians. I hate the borg just like you all do but I have not disowned my God by any means. Like some of you and thats your choice but leave my choice alone please.
Awakenedand free,
Those who do not believe in creation by devine nature probably think they came from a bug, some of those here I can believe that as they have about the same sense as a bug. What do we do to a Bug ? We smash it !!! Anyone who thinks we were evolved have very little brains. If we evolved from a bug we would still be born of a bug. Thats has to be the single most stupidest thought I have ever heard...And you cannot tell these people any differently because most of them who were in the borg have not released they're brain washed attitudes yet. Have you ever noticed that a JW has the I know it all attitude? Just like some here?........
To all those who have a problem with what I just said ? I really don`t care go write a letter to your president and see how much he cares. Haha about as much as I do...
Where is the evidence?
And here I was thinking that this would be a political thread about G W Bush and his Weapons of Mass Destruction claims .
Prove to me that god exist first.
I want to know why you who were familiar with bible teachings for so many years, you went around and taught others about the bible by knocking on doors but now most of you have no faith in God, in Jesus and in church.
When I was learning about the false doctrines of the JW's, I made a conscious choice to do a rational inquiry of my beliefs. At the time I still believed in the Bible and in God. I began reading the Bible on its own. I read of talking snakes, global floods, giants beating people up, men fighting angels, just so stories of god changing the languages of men because they built a tower too high, men being swallowed by large fish, supernatural plagues brought against a nation, etc. etc.
The stories sounded very much like fairy tales. Since I was led to believe incorrect things by the Watchtower Organization, I decided that I would need some evidence of these extraordinary claims in the bible to believe them. I would no longer just believe them because I was taught those stories as a child.
As it turns out, there is no evidence. There is just as much backing for those stories as fairy tales. I don't believe in fairy tales anymore. That led me to conclude the bible was not the word of god... but what was - and was there even a god or gods?
More research led me to the conclusion that there really is no evidence for the existence of any gods. Maybe there will be some day, but there isn't today. As a rational being, I choose to only believe extraordinary claims that are backed by good evidence. Since the evidence is currently lacking, I do not believe in any gods. I am an atheist. If evidence should turn up someday, I'd be happy to believe... I would have no choice - I must believe if there is evidence. I am a rational being.
I hope that helps.
rem
Let me rephrase this question. I want to know why you who were familiar with bible teachings for so many years, you went around and taught others about the bible by knocking on doors but now most of you have no faith in God, in Jesus and in church. I realize and understand the bitterness towards the borg for they have decieved you as well as I, but what caused you to loose your faith in God?
kbg
this is really an excellent point/question- for when i too came to the net some 7yrs ago- i saw the same thing- folks come out of the org and then proceed to "Lose" faith in god-
i like you thought it was maybe just cause folks were pissed off with thier life in the borg , now they needed to blame someone and god was the closet one to blame
so i like you watched folks leave the org only to become agnostic and athiest as well
well let me tell you how many of us got to this point and it is quit interesting in how it revolves around ones personall development, i am sure you will say "WEll i don't want that type of personal development it is is going to lead me do deny the very exisist of god"
so i understand cause that is exactly what i said as well- these former jw are some "Damn FooLs"
well i will tell you what happened to perhaps 99% of us-
Once we started to question the org, and not just accept what we were told we moved on to what could be called the Next Level- where one continues on in the process of questioning things not just accepting things - CAUSE THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS
that answer to our questions were no longer satisfying
as my grandma used to say : "Baby dont question the LARD" not Lord but LARD-
many of us begin to compare Belief Systems and we began to see some very interesting threads
one and perhaps the most important is that mankinds beleif system is based entirely on WHERE ONE IS BORN
which means despite your fine effort to defend the bible and christainity, the fact of the matter is if you were born in Iran you would be muslium- and you would be making the exact same defense for the muslium belief system as you now are doing for christainty
the bottom line is when we left WT we NEVER STOPPED QUESTIONING THINGS
and if you contiune to question things you will soon come to the conclusion that we have
i know personally and i am sure i can speak for so many others
i tried my best to prove that god is there and each time i came up a day late and a dollar short-
so a believer like yourself and i used to be the same way is only left with one possible Explanation of why one would deny god and the reason is what your beleif system has told you and it is a lie-
what your beleif system has told you as to the reason why a person would deny god is so that:
1. he will not have to be accountable to anyone
2. so he can go out and get all the "Coochie' he wants
3 so he can go out and get drunk, smoke dope, run women, and do all the bad things that one can think of is the reason why folks deny god
well i hate to break your bubble - the fact of the matter is my wife and i and so many others are doing nothing any different than when i was an Elder and Bethelite
we don;t party, smoke dope , get drunk, run women, etc- we are the same folks
we now just have a different persepective on life
while i don't expect you to fully understand or accept my explanation for i know when someone told me the same thing i thought he was blowing smoke in my eyes,
but as time passed and i continued to read everything i could get my hands on i begin to see the holes that exist in almost all belief systems despite the fact that they claim they don't have holes in their beliefs
you have asked an excellent question and i hope that folks would not DOG YOU cause it doesn;t help the conversation at all, but i do commend you for at least being willing to ask the question and discuss the issue of religion and god
take care
james
