You will find that Ray will simply not discuss anything that even borders on titillation; that's a personal boundary he has drawn. Let me be quick to note this is not some kind of supercilious condescension; it's just not the way Ray is wired. Call him a gentleman, or Christian to a fault, that's just the way he is.
So we all know Howard Zenke, eh? He's now a fixture closing on 50 years, I believe, so we may have several generations here.
Let me repeat Joel's observation, which I underscore mightily based on my own many decades of oversight. I've been "father confessor" to many such individuals as Joel describes above, for whom I have a great deal of affection. Some have been able to sort out their feelings successfully, a few with help have accepted their nature, others still struggle with needless guilt that no one on earth has so far been able to assuage.
Joel wrote:
"I would not be surprised to find that the bethel and pioneer ranks hold a higher than average percentage of innately homosexual men since many homosexual men choose a religious life in order to cope with the guilt they feel from being homosexual or to try to gain the good grace of god through hard work and thus be rewarded by being changed."
He's absolutely right, as anyone with experience will attest.
Interestingly enough, that latter category has greatly diminished, as men are more exposed to information about the nature of homosexuality--they don't need to seek refuge in pioneering, it seems to me. What troubles me deeply still is the number of young men who border on suicide, and some who lose their life as the result of moralizing elders who pretend to understand what they don't.
It's about as stupid as an elder who, faced with a 10-year-old boy's assertion of molestation, says "we need to look to the Word as our guide. The Bible says: 'Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a boy.'" It's in the book. Aaaarrrggghh!
Joel, I never did get back to you, but I want you to know I did visit the your site, and I feel your concept of Lifeism is wonderfully affirming in my view and many others whom I've spoken to. I've put out the Walter Wink material on this board, which is not an apology but rather a look that represents a view of many trained scholars.
The name, BTW, is Kalandros. Nick. I've heard all SORTS of stories of things that occurred without anyone saying a word, during the night, "sleeping." Funny that kind of nonsense was accepted from males, but pity the poor female who did not SCREAM loud enough. Catamites for God, so that someone might not have to leave His house, Beth-El.
Maximus