On Blaming God...

by AGuest 135 Replies latest watchtower bible

teejay

you remain..... nuttier than a fruitcake and perhaps the most arrogant human I have ever crossed paths with.

Six, you give fruitcakes too much credit. The ones I remember didn't have ENOUGH nuts!
wonderer2003

It would seem to ME... that if there IS a God... He can be... and/or NOT be... whatever HE wishes.
So we Have to live by the wishes of a God who
lets millions of babies be born deformed, mentally handicapped.
Lets millions of people die from starvation.
Lets millions of people die from (NOT SELF INFLICTED) disease
Lets millions of people suffer physically every day
Lets millions of people suffer mentally every day
Life is not a bed of Roses, but some people are brainwashed and totally blind.
There are many more of Gods wishes cursed on us.
YES IF THERE IS A GOD I BLAME HIM...........
AGuest

and the greatest of peace to you! Now, about my "cahones"... LOLOLOLOLOLOL! No, seriously, I would like to respond to your concern about Cain, if I may. Thanks!
Of all the people who have purportedly been "judged" by god, Cain has always been the one I thought was most mistreated by god. He could not help that he was a farmer. God never told him to be anything else.
Did he need to "help" it? Why would God want Cain to be anything else?What was wrong with being farmer? Is not God Himself a farmer? Matthew 21:33-41; John 15:1;
God said, "bring your best" and that's what he did.
Ahhhh, here is the problem: you are in error in your understanding! It was not ABOUT the offering itself... but about what was in CAIN... when he BROUGHT it. Cain... had a problem... that he didn't FIX... BEFORE he offered up HIS gift. Matthew 5:22-24;
Now, we don't know the circumstances of what it was Cain didn't fix, but...
It was not good enough for god.
Can God accept an unclean offering, dear Teejay? Should He? Cain's OFFERING was not "clean"... because CAIN... was not "clean"... INSIDE. Genesis 4:5-7; Leviticus 19:17; Mark 7:6; Genesis 4:8
I am better than god.
No... you're not. You can't even SEE as well as He, dear Teejay. 1 Samuel 16:7; Revelation 3:17, 18
You're not even in His league. Nor am I.
If my child does her best, it will be good enough for me.
And if she didn't... or if she tried to "play" you for some fool... thinking that she knew more than you... and you were just some punk-buster who she could tell whatever she wanted? Cain... did not... do his "best". Far from it. He though God couldn't tell.
Now, I know... you're gonna say,"Well, if my daughter DIDN'T do her best, I would tell her, teach her... warn her." And that's EXACTLY what God did. AND... He DIDN'T subject Cain to the punishment he DESERVED: he maliciously murdered his own brother, perhaps out of jealousy... perhaps HE wanted to watch the sheep; who knows? But when it came time to "pay the piper"... he cried like the... nevermind... he was... whine like a little... nevermind... and God... felt SORRY for him and let him LIVE. Not only that... he got a wife, some kids... and poor Abel... was dead.
Yet, you STILL think God "cruel". Please tell me, dear TJ: just how IS that?
I will not chastise her for it because I was personally expecting something else.
Oh, please...stop! How old is your daughter? All of, what... 4? 5? You come back here when she's 14... 15... 16. When she's seeing some thug YOU don't want her seeing because YOU expected her to see... well... someone like... what, you, maybe? Someone with a "future"... a J-O-B?
It AMAZES me what people who don't have children... and people with YOUNG children say they will... and will not... do. Absolutely AMAZES me. Let me give you a little bit of advice, my dear Daddy Teejay... DON'T... say... what you will... or will not... do... when it comes to your children. Why? Because... you truly have NO IDEA.
But, no, wait! You come back here in say, 10, 12 years, and THEN tell all of us... what you DID. K? I promise you... I'll be waiting...
If god can stay the hand of Abraham just as he was about to ~~murder~~ sacrifice Isaac, couldn't he do something similar today?
Of course He can. But God stopped Abraham from doing something GOD... told Abraham to DO! DID God... tell... hmmmm... let's see... Ted Bundy... to kill all those women? Did He tell John Malvo and friend to shoot all those people? Did He tell George W. to go to Iraq and kill innocent men, women and children over there? Did God tell those soldiers... some of whom were BAPTIZED right there on the battle field (!!!!!)... to go kill innocent men, women and children... for the sake of ONE MAN and his "regime"?
Or did all of these... make a CHOICE? Abraham did not WANT to kill Isaac... but proved that he WOULD have. My Father... did not WANT to sacrifice His Son... to save you and me. But... He did it.
If you're god, you don't have to kill anyone to stop bad things from happening.
Really? You don't have to kill ANYONE? Then why do WE have to do it? Please... tell me, Teejay, dear... how would YOU stop bad things from happening? And please don't say, "Put all the bad people on an island." 'Cause sooner or later... they'd find their way back...
We want what Abraham wanted. When he met the two men on their way to Sodom, he asked, "Will not the god of all the earth DO WHAT IS RIGHT?"
May I ask you: What is right? What was Abraham pleading for and what was the OUTCOME of that "debate"?
I cannot speak for others, but that is what I want. God: do what is right.
Again, I ask you... what... in your opinion... is "right"? And why do you want GOD to do it... and not MAN?
Peace, my dear brother!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Btw, how you doing Shelby?
czarofmischief

Is God responsible for our suffering. Well, yeah. He cursed the ground, He made us get old and die, Revelation (if you believe that acid trip) says that he curses the earth with plagues.
He does it, so he is responsible. But I don't think He can be blamed, in the sense that he is kicking ass and asserting Himself. He has the might, so He has the right. If he wants to fix it, he will. Who can tell God what to do? All we can do, in the end, is ask for help with our own individual situations and do the best we can. "Tend our garden," as Voltaire said. We have our lives to live and all these big questions like "Why suffering?" are pointless. suffering is here, like weeds in our gardens, and we can sit and blame god for making weeds or we can get off our asses and pull them by feeding the hungry and curing the sick, like Jesus and Mohammed and Moses and Buddha and Voltaire all said to do.
Our individual lives and efforts are made meaningless by our deaths. So occupy your time by "pulling weeds" and forget about your eternal future, because you don't have one. If you do, it's in God's hands, eh, so trust that it will work out all right in the end and pull those weeds. Except those weeds in my greenhouse, those are my personal weeds and I'll share but only if you don't pull them...
CZAR
JT

I mean, since He is God and all... and thus, the One who sets up the "rules". Right?

i guess you gotta point there sorta like the "Fat Kid" who has the basketball, it's his ball so he gets to make all the rules to the game
what a wonderful way to conduct onesself
gumby

Except those weeds in my greenhouse, those are my personal weeds and I'll share but only if you don't pull them

I promise I'll not pull them untill they are ready...... if you'll share. See ya in october
Gumby
teejay

God said, "bring your best" and that's what he did.

Ahhhh, here is the problem: you are in error in your understanding! It was not ABOUT the offering itself... but about what was in CAIN... when he BROUGHT it. Cain... had a problem... that he didn't FIX... BEFORE he offered up HIS gift. Matthew 5:22-24;
Now, we don't know the circumstances of what it was Cain didn't fix, but...

Shelby,
I don't know the reason for your quoting Matthew, but for you I think it clouds the issue. You cannot make the mistake of reading more into the passage than what it actually says. Look at what Genesis (not Matthew) says:
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. In the course
of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering
to the LORD . But Abel brought fat portions from some of the
firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and
his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with
favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. –
Gen. 4:2-5 NIV

Do you see where it says, "But Able brought fat portions..."? The word "BUT"? To me, that clearly infers that Abel's offering was automatically more acceptable to god at the time it was offered. Without giving any explanation, the passage goes on to say that god did not look with favor on Cain's. "So" (or then) Cain became angry.
As far as I'm concerned, Cain had every right to be angry. God showed callous favoritism -- a conditional love that hurt Cain's spirit. You can try to explain away the mistake god made, but I won't excuse god's guilt in the events that later unfolded. God was wrong. Period.
Cain... did not... do his "best". Far from it. He though God couldn't tell.

Please show me where it says that.
I think you misunderstood me when I said: "I will not chastise her for it because I was personally expecting something else". You said:
You come back here when she's 14... 15... 16. When she's seeing some thug YOU don't want her seeing because YOU expected her to see... well... someone like... what, you, maybe? Let me give you a little bit of advice, my dear Daddy Teejay... DON'T... say... what you will... or will not... do... when it comes to your children. Why? Because... you truly have NO IDEA.

But that's just it. I do have an idea. You are confusing the issue, I think.
God told his two sons to bring an offering. They did, based on their livelihoods. God liked one and not the other without stating why. Cain got angry and, without explaining himself or showing Cain how he could improve on his initial offering, god chastised Cain even more. It was as if god stooped down and gave Abel a big hug and shot an angry look at Cain. God was wrong. Confusing what god did with me being unhappy with my daughter dating a thug are two totally different things. Surely you see that.
But God stopped Abraham from doing something GOD... told Abraham to DO! DID God... tell... hmmmm... let's see... Ted Bundy... to kill all those women? Did He tell John Malvo and friend to shoot all those people?

I understand. If god tells someone to murder, then it's good. But again, you miss my point.
Earlier in this thread you made the statement that if god kills people who are about to do something wrong, people would complain about god's unfairness. To solve that problem while still putting a stop to wrongdoing, I mention the incident involving the ~~murder~~ sacrifice of Isaac to point out that god does not have to kill people to stop bad things from happening. He can also send angels to simply stop the activity – whatever the activity is. He can stop a murderer from committing murder without killing the murderer. Just like he stopped Abraham from ~~murdering~~ sacrificing Issac.
Please... tell me, Teejay, dear... how would YOU stop bad things from happening? And please don't say, "Put all the bad people on an island." 'Cause sooner or later... they'd find their way back...

I think the issue is not: what would teejay do to stop the evil from happening; but: why isn't god doing anything to stop evil from happening. That, to me, is a much better question.
May I ask you: What is right? What was Abraham pleading for and what was the OUTCOME of that "debate"?

As far as I can tell, Abraham was pleading for god to not allow the two angels to murder innocent people. You tell me... what do YOU think Abraham was pleading for? And what is YOUR definition of "right"?
Brummie

Shelby YOU ARE beautiful.
Brummie
gumby

Shelby YOU ARE beautiful.

That's right! And she's mine..........all mine! You just keep your dirty hands off of her MR. Brummie
Gumby
Kenneson

Wonder2003 wrote: "So we have to live by the wishes of a God who...
"Lets millions of babies be born deformed, mentally handicapped
"Lets millions of people die from starvation
"Lets millions of people die from (NOT SELF INFLICTED) disease
"Lets millions of people suffer physically everyday
"Let millions of people suffer mentally everyday"
...
"Yes IF THERE IS A GOD I BLAME HIM."
And if there is no God who do you blame? Are all those millions of sufferers suddenly alleviated because there is no God?

On Blaming God...

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