Knorr Family

by vienne 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • vienne

    thanks, sparky. very helpful. Did you hear the 'pillow fight story'? Probably apocryphal, but interesting.

  • sparky1

    I am not aware of the pillow fight story. Could you elaborate. Were you ever a Witness?

  • vienne

    No never a witness. Some family who are. I write history. click the link to my blog on the first page and you'll see our two books on witness history.

    The pillow fight story has it that when Knorr was new at Bethel he skipped the family Watch Tower study and got into a pillow fight with two other boys in his room which was directly over the meeting space stage. Rutherford stopped the study and went upstairs to investigate and got hit in the face with a pillow. He, surprisingly, took it rather well. True? No way of knowing.

    Told to me by a very old man who was at Bethel in the 1950s.

  • vienne
  • RubaDub

    If so, it is so distant that it did not affect Nathan Knorr, and while I can trace his father's financial interests, I can find no connection to Knorr foods.

    vienne ...

    Then explain why when soup was served to the Bethelites, he insisted on only serving Knorr soups.

    Rub a Dub

  • Gorbatchov

    Nathan @ christmas Bethel.

  • OrphanCrow
    vienne: family is family?

    Yes, family is family.

    You yourself has demonstrated the influence that a family connection has on a person. You immediately brought up your distant family status from generations ago and presented that to your audience. Why? What does it matter who they were to us? Maybe on the off chance that we, your audience, would be influenced slightly after knowing that your family has "people who ruled most of Europe"? And the Rockefellers? Why even mention that if it had no effect on you? To effect others?

    As Sparky has pointed out, that Knorr family connection was known to those around N Knorr. They knew he had that connection and it would have influenced them - it may not have influenced the way that Knorr thought and it may have had no monetary value to Nathan....but those around him would have been impressed and changed their treatment of him accordingly. Human behavior is like that (and you intuitively know this because you immediately revealed details of your personal family history).

    You claim that there was no influence but I think that is a myopic way to view the Knorr family connection - it could very well have influenced how Knorr was treated by others. It could have given him social mobility.

    I think that your response is premature. I don't understand how you can so quickly dismiss the possible significance of this connection when, a few posts ago, you declared (twice) that Nathan Knorr was no relation to the Knorrs in Germany. Further exploration of the possible influences this may have had on how Knorr was received in different circles should be forthcoming rather than dismissed because of your own limited personal experience.

    I, too, have personal experience and I do know that a family connection that far back can and does influence people in small and subtle ways. Here is one example:

    I have done a fair bit of historical and genealogical research into my ancestors, both maternal and paternal. Several years ago, I met a couple (through a mutual friend) that are from Austria. I mentioned to them that my mother's family can be traced back to a certain location in Austria. The man asked me the location and surname. When I told him, he burst into a great big smile, grabbed me and hugged me and said "Well then, we are related. You are family! Our home is open to you anytime - please come for a visit and I will introduce you to others in your family."

    And that is what I meant when I said "Family is family". You may not have the same connection to your family identity that others do, Vienne. And you don't know if Nathan Knorr and his family maintained contact with their German cousins, you don't know what connection existed between them, other than you can say that Nathan's father didn't share in ownership of Knorr Foods. That is all you know and there could have been connections that you don't know about - connections that weren't financially based. It could have given Nathan Knorr the social mobility he needed in certain situations.

  • vienne

    Ruba, I presume you're trying to dish humor. If not, you've scored very high on the gullibility scale.

    Orph, That's interesting speculation, but I cannot use speculation. I must be able to document what I write from a contemporary source. All I have from available documentation is his father's shifting occupations and a record of investment gone wrong. Nathan, himself, seems not to have had any social status. He attended high school; there is no record of exceptional behavior or status there. He lived with his parents into his 20s. He worked part time in retail as a clerk and go-for. After high school and after attending the Cedar Point Convention he took up colporteur work, what today's Witnesses call pioneering. His mother was a domestic before marriage, someone's maid or housekeeper, a servant. The family does not appear in the local press except in later years as old timers with memories. His dad managed theaters, one after another, finally becoming part owner of one. This is not a socially mobile family. It is a moderately well off family.

    What might have been is not history. What might be is not history. So while your speculations are interesting, they lack proof based on a verifiable contemporary source.

  • sparky1

    "He lived with his parents into his 20s" - vienne

    According to the PROCLAIMERS book, on page 91 it states: "On September 6, 1923, Brother Knorr became a member of the Bethel family in Brooklyn." That would make him 18 years old when he started his Bethel service and so he would no longer be living in his parents home. If you have evidence to the contrary, that would be interesting to see!

  • OrphanCrow
    vienne: That's interesting speculation, but I cannot use speculation


    Vienne, please don't get me wrong about what I am about to say. I respect your work. People like you are invaluable. People like me appreciate the commitment and time that you devote to providing us with complete and accurate source material. Your work is vital.

    Speculation is for people like me. That is why I challenged you when you dismissed and even denied that Nathan Knorr was related to the Knorr family in Germany. My job, as a reader and semi-serious academic myself, is to take the details you provide and build my own understanding of "who was Nathan Knorr".

    The details you have provided - an unassuming and relatively unremarkable young man - adds to Knorr's psychological profile. Add to that the information that you have dismissed out of hand - that his family history was one of success and power (100 years in the food business is nothing to sneeze about...) and you have a possible reason why a young man like Nathan would actively seek out and eventually gain so much power. Something drove him - those who rise to the top are driven and he could very well have been driven by his apparent lack of success in comparison to his cousins in Germany.

    Please continue to dig up the details - there are some of us who find even the tiniest, almost insignificant detail to actually have significance in some context. It takes time to build pictures.

    Don't speculate. Quit interpreting - I can do that for myself.

    And thank you for providing the information that you have.

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