by StinkyPantz 117 Replies latest social current
Ballistic-
I live in a country with a 6 times higher crime rate (unbelieveably) but I have never even seen a real gun, not seen such a crime, a killing or a dead body.
Sorry, I missed your point. I live in the US and I while I have seen dead bodies (at funerals), I've never seen a gun either.
And why is it unbelievable that your country's crime rate is 6 times higher, it's well documented?
Editted to add: 6 might be an exagerration.
Englishman you did not bash america in the thread to me. It was a personal assult. Both you an Simon have repeatedly done this and it is 100% the reason for my attitude. All I can say is that the example you to have been setting is beyond childish. It is everything that I distain about the Watchtower defenders. What I have learned is that you two have poor debating skills when outside your comfort zones. You are both very good at baiting people, putting them down, and pissing people off. That was your intent with me. No doubt you both have vast knowlege of the WT. Far more than me. Why you choose to ignore facts is very clear. You are being propagandists. Here is why. Englishman your statistics from this thread is for one to two years and only covers only murder rates. S P's statisics covers crime and is over some 15 years. And crime does go hand in hand with guns and gun control. You and Simon never address this. Not here or in any of the other threads that you try to make the US out as so violent. Here like other threads where you have already made up your mind that you must be right you habitually insult me instead. I have given Simon books, court cases, opinion, editorials, links and documentaries from a multiple of sources on all the threads lately. All that has been done in return is to call me a Fox groupie. As none of my postings save one that was only for him are from that source who is misguided? He says and I'm sure you are with him that you will admit it when he is wrong. But with me rather than put down his politcal bias for one minute he says he is going to ignore me. (One does not have to admit they are wrong if they shun someone.) And you continue with insulting my travels to other countries. What does that have to do with the origion of the English/American laws of self defense? Nothing at all. Unless you are immortal and have been alive since the 17th century. If so than my mistake.
You make the strongest case you can that America is violent and the UK is the safest of Nations. This is false. In fact if we want to talk about gun control and crime and you say as I have not lived in the UK I can stick with the USA and look at States like California and Vermont for crime stats. There is a direct result of guns and self defense. http://www.packing.org/states.jsp
You talked about owning a shotgun in the past. It would be illegal for me to have a loaded shotgun or rifle in a car in my state and I think every State in the US. Even a round in the magazine is illegal. For my State I have to be crime free and submit to finger printing and be on file with the FBI to carry a pistol in public. And even then where I can go is restricted. Laws are different from State to State and my CCP is not valid accross America. But you lump all America as one. This is bias.
An educator/student allows and examines all the facts looking for the maximum amount of information to make a decison. A propagandist makes the stongest case for their desired outcome and dismisses anything and anyone who will detract from the outcome they want. What did you do? I don't think that you were defending the UK. I believe you and Simon that you hate everyone. It seems that the desire you have is just to be right. And that is wrong.
Wild Horses, we haven't really talked before, but I would really like to reassure you, that while there's lots of anti UK and US retoric, and sometimes you might agree with part of it and I might, I assure you there is no hidden agenda. I have worked for two huge American companies, one after another, and still do, and we can count our differences, or rejoice at our simularities. And yes, I sometimes joke about Americans, I bet you do me to.
Eman, don't worry. I love you and understand that you get angry at times and say things that you wish you had said differently. We all do. My big fault is that I wait until I am angry and then it all comes out, like now.
NOTHING will change the fact that I have deep respect for you. Not even if you dislike my country.
ballistic,
Like I said to eman, even if you like/dislike my country it's ok. It just hurts my feelings that the threads keep going and going and seem to never end. After a while, a person can't help but feel as if it were the people themselves that are disliked.
sest le vie (not sure if I spelled that correctly)
WH-
Simon, then why do you take every opportunity to do so? One thread here or there is one thing, but you have been posting about your dislike of our country for months now. It seems as if you enjoy it and if you notice, the American posters didn't start threads about the UK unitl they finally got tired of it. The big difference here is that you live in the UK and can delete the post when you get tired of hearing it but we can not. If we wish to continue posting here, we have to just DEAL WITH IT, or be kicked off if we say something that you do not like. It happened just the other day with RubyTuesday. She only posted one thread that you didn't like and she was gone. Is that fair?
This is exactly what I said last night, almost word for word. What happened? I was called a liar and I was told that I was being childish. He also said I had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe because you're older that me, you'll get a better response.
PS it's C'est la vie
Washington DC 45.79
It's ironic that DC has the strictest gun control IN THE NATION!!! Handguns are almost totally banned across the board. Now, womens groups & gay groups are tryng to get those bans lifted as to be able to defend themselves.
but I have never even seen a real gun, not seen such a crime, a killing or a dead body.
I have seen all three, it was an asian gang hit in portland OR. I was a block away, & saw a mans head collapse from being shot at close range. It was awful. These a--holes would have killed this guy no matter what , & I'm sure did'nt have theirguns legally. I have also had crimes against my person stopped w/ a gun. I disagree w/ gun control except for felons. I think it should be mandatory for a certain segment of the populace to carry. An armed society is a polite society.
It happened just the other day with RubyTuesday. She only posted one thread that you didn't like and she was gone. Is that fair?
Maybe she had an attack of the LuckyLucys and......well you know the rest.
Ignored One.
It's a fact, guns in the hands of law abiding citizens for defensive purpose means lower crime. That does not mean that every single person has a God given or State given right to bear arms or arm bears. The UK has a higher crime rate than the US that is a fact as well. The citizenry of the UK, law abiding citizens, have surrendered the rights and freedoms of self defense in the name of societies saftey and protection, that is a fact. A great American once said "those who would surrender freedom for saftey deserve neither." From the attitude of most people in the UK, at least those here who are honest, they have neither.
I see the difference Simon. But how am I supposed to regard the criticism of our Second Ammendment when it comes from people who don't even live here? Do you and Englishman think I shouldn't own a pistol and shotgun for self-defense?
Anytime this debate comes up here, I see folks from other countries giving their opinions on American gun laws and get the impression that some would like to see myself and my fellow American gun-owners disarmed.
Well, I am not advocating that you are disarmed. What America does internally is of little concern to me because I don't live there. I was merely pointing out the FACTS that there are more homicides per capita in the USA than in the UK, contrary to the topic that was started.
I can't believe that the same old people with the same old chips on their shoulders are taking comments like this as America bashing YET AGAIN. This is sad and pathetic. It's almost like you have an agenda.
You make the strongest case you can that America is violent and the UK is the safest of Nations
No, this is not what we said and is an exaguration. There could be more lower-level crime in the UK for instance but so far, no compariative figures have been posted.
You talked about owning a shotgun in the past. It would be illegal for me to have a loaded shotgun or rifle in a car in my state and I think every State in the US.
Why would "owning a shotgun" equate to carrying it round loaded in your car? tut ut - another straw man argument ... is this really the best you can come up with?
An educator/student allows and examines all the facts looking for the maximum amount of information to make a decison. A propagandist makes the stongest case for their desired outcome and dismisses anything and anyone who will detract from the outcome they want.
Go look in a mirror pal !
Now, I suggest people go look at the original site with the dubious statistics - it doesn't look at all like an official website and the figures are therefore highly dubious. It looks like something that someone with some obsessive compulsion to paint the USA in a good light no matter what the reality has created.
The UK has a higher crime rate than the US that is a fact as well
Where is it a fact? What level of crime are you talking about? Parking tickets? Show me some official figures. Sorry to burst your bubble but you saying something does not make it a fact.
