Crime Rates: U.S. v. England

by StinkyPantz 117 Replies latest social current

• 

  Englishman

  Donkey is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment. I understand why he is using gays as a comparison, he's trying to show that if we keep posting material that is negative to something, we will eventually be labelled as being of that negative opinion yourself no matter how much we deny it.

  However, I believe that the thread IS provocative and was always going to generate bad feeling by it's inbuilt capacity to pit one country against another. No-one is ever going to say "Hell, you're right, I live in a crime infested shit-hole, I wish that my country could be more like yours".

  'Tain't gonna happen, people!

  Now I suggest we knock this one on the head, shake our ciber handshakes and move on.

  Englishman.
• 

  teejay

  Perhaps one of you enlightened people who are so convinced that I have criticised America show me WHERE on this topic you think I have done so? -- Simon

  [Donkey is] trying to show that if we keep posting material that is negative to something, we will eventually be labelled as being of that negative opinion yourself no matter how much we deny it. -- Englishman
• 

  Abaddon

  Oh deary, it's very simple;

  Stinky made a good point about overall crime figures being higher in the UK. Unfortunately the table she used in her first post contained information regarding murder rates in the UK that was utterly wrong.

  While robbery may be higher in the UK, murder rates are about five times lower than the USA. Now, anyone who will say that they would rather be in a country with 5x murders than 2x robberies is WELCOME to their opinion, but I don't share it.

  As has also been pointed out, robberies in the UK involve fists, knives or blunt objects; mostly fists; a robbery in the USA is eight times more likely to involve the use of a gun. Again, you may prefer less frequent robberies by people packing heat, or more frequent robberies by people who are probably unarmed; I know what I would choose.

  So, it's swings and roundabouts. But I think you win on the swings and lose on the roundabouts in this instance.

  What we do see here, yet again, is people taking comments about differences as either personal slurs, or attacks against their country that they feel personally due to patriotic fervour. The differences between Brits and Merkins in this area has been extensively discussed; you don't have to agree with my assessment.

  The fact that Americans do kill each other five times more frequently than Europeans is undeniable.

  This does not mean America is a bad country or that Americans are bad people. I don't think that anyone has said this.

  Please realise that Europeans see America, the people, America, the landmass, America, the government, America, the law, America, the culture, and America, the facts and figures as DIFFERENT things.

  No one needs to be told that many Europeans have severe reservations about American government at this point. It's a fact, you don't have to like it, just as you don't have to like France. The people are, in my experience, not disliked by anyone who's met them. The landmass is breathtaking; you truly are fortunate to live there. The culture, well, for all we Europeans complain we spend millions every year consuming it.

  The facts and figures and the law... well, they differ.

  But if we make an observation that "this law is different, why, it doesn't seem to help any?", it doesn't mean we hate America. If we say, "hey, why does this happen so often compared to Europe? " it doesn't mean we hate America.
• 

  searchfothetruth

  I hate Manchester United. Does it mean I hate ALL the people from Manchester?....damn, bad example.
• 

  Englishman

  I hate Manchester United. Does it mean I hate ALL the people from Manchester?....damn, bad example

  .

  I too hated Manchester United at this exact moment, Man U are in red, Portsmouth in gold.

  Still loved watching Beckham though.

  I did.

  Englishman.
• 

  teejay

  I hate Manchester United. Does it mean I hate ALL the people from Manchester?....damn, bad example. - searchfortruth
• 

  teejay

  p.s. I know why murder rates (esp. with the uses of handguns) is higher in the U.S., but that's not what this thread is about, so...
• 

  Simon

  Yes ...

  "Let's all unite against our common enemy"

  "The popular people's front Manchester United supporters"

  (you know I'm only kidding, us City fans love you to bits - we like that you come and visit our city when there's a home match on )
• 

  donkey

  Englishman,

  Thanks for seeing what I was trying to say. Sometimes my ass gets in the way of my meaning.

  Jack
• 

  Jayson

  Stinky made a good point about overall crime figures being higher in the UK. agreedUnfortunately the table she used in her first post contained information regarding murder rates in the UK that was utterly wrong. I agree that murder rates in the US are drasticly higher;. Gun related homicide and & suicide higher in the US. I disagree with the concept that ALL of the US is the Wild West. I also do not think that guns are the problem. Cultural attitude is.

  While robbery may be higher in the UK, murder rates are about five times lower than the USA. Now, anyone who will say that they would rather be in a country with 5x murders than 2x robberies is WELCOME to their opinion, but I don't share it. I do not want to live where I am murdered or robbed. Certian parts of the US have higher crime rates and higher murder rates. The more urban the more nasty. If I am attacked I demand the right to protect myself, my family and my property where ever I am. I also would help a stranger without quesiton even if the puts me in danger.

  As has also been pointed out, robberies in the UK involve fists, knives or blunt objects; mostly fists; a robbery in the USA is eight times more likely to involve the use of a gun. Again, you may prefer less frequent robberies by people packing heat, or more frequent robberies by people who are probably unarmed; I know what I would choose. That more people are killed with handguns only means that Americans are better shots than Europeeons. Not that we are more violent. To kill one does not require a gun. Rwanda proved that.

  So, it's swings and roundabouts. But I think you win on the swings and lose on the roundabouts in this instance.

  What we do see here, yet again, is people taking comments about differences as either personal slurs, or attacks against their country that they feel personally due to patriotic fervour. The differences between Brits and Merkins in this area has been extensively discussed; you don't have to agree with my assessment. Anti gun people in the US are no different than those in the UK. All of this flows from the same bias. If their were no guns than at least the criminals would have to chase you down with a knife to stab you to death.

  The fact that Americans do kill each other five times more frequently than Europeans is undeniable. Agreed.

  This does not mean America is a bad country or that Americans are bad people. I don't think that anyone has said this. The B F C attitude does. It is the "rubbish."

  Please realise that Europeans see America, the people, America, the landmass, America, the government, America, the law, America, the culture, and America, the facts and figures as DIFFERENT things. This is my point while they are different they are related. The "straw" is when you try to discuss only parts about crime & cultures. The UK accepts crime such as robbery as life. I could never do that. Some in the US (places where there are severe restrictions on guns the same attitude is in the US. But the anti-gun crowd still does not get it.

  Hey what about this; Remember the Hollywood wife who used her BMW to repeatedly run over her cheating husband in the US? Is that a moving violation or are cars a WMD? I don't know.

  No one needs to be told that many Europeans have severe reservations about American government at this point. It's a fact, you don't have to like it, just as you don't have to like France. The people are, in my experience, not disliked by anyone who's met them. The landmass is breathtaking; you truly are fortunate to live there. The culture, well, for all we Europeans complain we spend millions every year consuming it.

  The facts and figures and the law... well, they differ. So does culture. In the US there is a percived duty to come to the rescue. The "Cowboy" mentality is not of guns alone it is about protecting the innocent as indviduals. It is something that every American understands but I think "others" don't understand and don't share. We have the need to oppose oppression. I even see that in the American "anti-bushies."

  But if we make an observation that "this law is different, why, it doesn't seem to help any ? can you state opinion or fact that laws targeting those who use guns in crime does not curb crime & gun crime? it doesn't mean we hate America. If we say, "hey, why does this happen so often compared to Europe? " it doesn't mean we hate America. I think it be a love/hate relationship joined with jealousy. But that is my opinion.