Crime Rates: U.S. v. England (page 10)

larc

Geez oh Pete,

Can you all just leave it alone??? This is just another version of, "my country is better than yours." Gawd allmighty, we both have pretty good countries, don't ya think?

I know where I live, I have not heard a gun shot, ever.

Englishman

Let's all learn something from this.

If you're English, criticising America gets you into hot water with Americans. It's received with far more distaste than if the criticism had been made by a fellow American.

If you're an American, criticising England gets you into hot water with the English. It's received with far more distatste than if the criticism had been made by a fellow Englishman.

All the fact and figures in the whole world will not persuade one nationality to agree with another nationality if that involves criticism of your own country.

Saying you're a messenger just relaying some negative stuff about someone else country is fine, but you can only do that once. After that you will appear to be on a campaign.

Englishman.

donkey

If you're English, criticising America gets you into hot water with Americans. It's received with far more distaste than if the criticism had been made by a fellow American.
If you're an American, criticising England gets you into hot water with the English. It's received with far more distatste than if the criticism had been made by a fellow Englishman.

Well said Englisman. You have been a gentleman through all of this IMHO.

I have tried my hardest not to participate in these threads because I know I will get deleted if I express how I feel and I know others feel the same way. Simon, you are very successfully polarizing the mebers of YOUR (yes YOUR because you keep reminding and threatening everyone about it) board. Is this what you want? Honestly ask yourself that - because this is what you are doing...OVER and OVER again. You claim to be smart (an argument which I support BTW) but yet it seems to me you fail to realize that perception is 90% of reality. Let's for argument sake say that you are entirely correct and all you are posting are statistics as YOU claim and let's even say that your statistics are correct; now 90% of Americans perceive you have an Anti-American bias and they perceive that if they call you on it you will threaten or depending on your mood delete them for calling you on it because it is YOUR (not theirs) board. This may all be their perception...and you might be right....but it is their reality!! And you are polarizing YOUR board - whether you like to hear that or not.

Let's pick another example: GAYS. Now I could quote all kinds of statistics about them and how they have a higher AIDS rate than heteosexuals in the same geographic community, and if I start to get into how gay people act; the type of sex they have etc. My stats will be correct - and those who are offended will be incorrect in their retaliatory numbers they try to construe; yet if I do this and do it many times over I will be perceived as being homophobic - no matter how much I protest that I am not.

I know you don't care much for me - but you are harming your own stated cause, Simon - to promote an xJW board that promotes healing. You can of course simply dismiss this post as coming from an ass but I don't think I am speaking out of my ass about the effect you are having as a board owner and as someone who non-owners (peons) might have some type of expectation would remain unbiased or would suppress their bias due to the position you hold.

CNN77 MSIL / GRAVEDANCER / DONKEY / REFINERS FIRE

Simon

Perhaps one of you enlightened people who are so convinced that I have criticised America show me WHERE on this topic you think I have done so?

If you cannot then I suggest you stop making your silly accusations.

Comparing hard statistics about crime rates to attitudes and opinions about gays and aids is ridiculous.

As I've said before, I am entitled to an opinion and to take part in discussions and topics that I find interesting. If certain people don't like that or can't cope with it then they have a problem. I am not going to pander to the sensitivities of peolpe that I believe are being unreasonable or give in to pressure to allow one side to voice their opinions and the rest of us keep our mouths shut for fear of upsetting them.

wednesday

excellent post donkey.

It is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot.

Abaddon

Stinky;

One other thing I'd like to point out. The majority of suicides in the country are due to gunshot wounds. I once read that these are included when tabulating statistics regarding gun deaths. "In 2000, 56.5% of suicides (16,586) were committed using a firearm." So see, thousands of firearm death are suicides and that inflates th numbers.

Yeah, but they are not included in figures involving MURDER, which is still five times higher. Which would you choose by the way? Twice the robbery rate or five times the murder rate?

Simon

stinkypantz: the original post mentioned serious crime and claimed that those committing it were more likely to get caught and jailed in the USA than the UK. You assume that showing higher overall crime figures in the UK proved this point which of course, it does not.

Crime rates as measured in police statistics are higher in England for half of the measured crime types. A person committing serious crime in the United States is generally more likely than one in England to be caught, convicted, and incarcerated. Incarceration sentences are also generally longer in the United States than England.

In my opinion, the raw stats show that the USA has more serious crime (my definition of serious does not include petty theft or traffic violations).

It actually says that stats in England are higher for HALF of the measured crimes. This surely means that for the other half the US is higher doesn't it?

What we're getting down to is which particular crimes you want to compare stats for and if, as you are doing, you just want to compare the stats where the UK has the higher figure then that would give you the biased and misleading figure you are looking for.

I prefer to look at the stats and see what they tell us rather than cherry picking the evidence to support a previously decided viewpoint.

searchfothetruth

In which country's cities would you feel safer walking the streets alone at night?

donkey

Simon,

Perhaps one of you enlightened people who are so convinced that I have criticised America show me WHERE on this topic you think I have done so?
If you cannot then I suggest you stop making your silly accusations.
Comparing hard statistics about crime rates to attitudes and opinions about gays and aids is ridiculous.

mmm...I wonder what the reading and comprehension of British people is? How do they rate statistically? Actually - I stated NO opinion on whether you were or were not anti-american. I stated that you were polarizing YOUR board.

Now back to the reading and comprehension lesson for the day: Did I state an OPINION on gays vs heteros? um um um NOOO!!! I used it as an example to show that if I or anyone else for that matter were to cite STATISTICS not SILLY (god-damn SILLY) OPINIONS about whether or not gays had higher AIDS rates than heteros and if I continued to cite STATISITCS (not silly opinions) over and over again - I would be perceived as being anti-gay (even if I was not or if I protested I was not and called all those who disgreed with me SILLY). Personally I don't care whether gays or heteros are whatever - I merely used it as an example to make you think.

I guess I am just being silly and wasting my time.

Simon

Let's pick another example: GAYS. Now I could quote all kinds of statistics about them and how they have a higher AIDS rate than heteosexuals in the same geographic community, and if I start to get into how gay people act; the type of sex they have etc. My stats will be correct - and those who are offended will be incorrect in their retaliatory numbers they try to construe; yet if I do this and do it many times over I will be perceived as being homophobic - no matter how much I protest that I am not.

Donkey, I'll demonstrate why your argument is flawed:

I did not start this topic. I simply replied with the statistics to what I think was a false assertion.

Going off your example, the comparable scenario would be:

Someone claims that homosexuals have a lower AIDS rate than the general community and it's because of how they act, the type of sex they have etc ... I reply with statistics that show that this isn't true.

Now, would that make me homophobic? I don't think so. If the person starting the topic did not refute the stats but started complaining I was being homophobic for posting them would you think they had a valid claim? I don't think so.

If people can't accept that other people may have a different point of view and can't face being challenged over claims they make then they should not make them IMHO.

What I do think is definitely the case is that there a handful of people who are determined to find fault and take offense with anything that I say.

Crime Rates: U.S. v. England

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