by onacruse 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
If the God of the bible really existed, then logic would tend to dictate that God would've just removed the Devil, forgiven his human creation, and saved humanity thousands of years of heartache and horror, if He had just cared more about his creations than His pride. It's a very human thing to hold a grudge, hurt people to prove a point, kill because you're pissed off, etc.
If God is real, I hope somebody kicks his (or her) ass.
ash
If God is real, I hope somebody kicks his (or her) ass.
Mrs. Shakita
gopher, why the delay?
"the Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."--2 peter 3:9
larc, i appreciate your questions to me. i think that the questions you raised are all answered in romans chapter 5, and so would refer you and any others with the same questions there. to my mind and heart these queries are answered powerfully, eloquently and sufficiently. but you should read it yourself and form your own conclusions. read with an open mind -- at least try to see why i feel satisfied with the answers given.
the book of romans answers many of the questions raised in this thread.
very best wishes, nowisee
not wanting anyone to perish
Yeah sure. Check your brain at the door please.
jst2:
Yet what can be pointed to with absolute conviction that shows he HAS GOT IN TOUCH WITH YOU? Religiously and philosophically there are no absolutes, just beliefs and faiths.
Indeed. If I suddenly was visited by God, and we had a long conversation, I could very well end up afterward asking myself: "Hmmmm, how do I know that was God?" Or, perhaps more likely: "Katie, make an appointment for me with a psychiatrist, will ya? I've suddenly started hallucinating!"
In any case, however valid I might think such an experience might be, it's still valid only for me. As I've mentioned in the epiphany thread, there is no way that I could possibly "communicate" my experience to another person on a level that would lead to absolute conviction. To add to what IW says:
no one here would believe [Craig] because God has not apparently gotten in touch with any well known xJWs in a similar fashion and until that happens such phenomena will be ignored among us
Any JW or exJW that believed what I said about any "encounter with God" would be equally deluded. And I would be delusional to expect my experience to mean anything to anybody (except for AlanF, of course...he believes everything I say roflmao)
Therefore his claim would remain suspect though true.
And that would be the only healthy and normal response.
Sentinel:
sort of like knocking on the door of a house when in your heart you know no one is there
I continue to pray, and I continue to believe that "someone" hears my prayers. My prayers are not of the typical "Christian" format, but that's irrelevant. The point of my query was that, whatever God thinks of my prayers, I am in any case on my own...and that's not a problem. I feel the same as BigTex:
But I do know that when I talk to my God I feel something.
And even if God doesn't exist, that it makes me "feel something" to pray to him is all that matters...so long as I don't march out the door and try to impose my feelings on others, or deride them for not having the same feelings as I do.
plum, beads work better
Mrs. Shakita:
Why oh why does God pick and choose who is more worthy to receive an answer?
On one hand I'd say we're talking about different things here: verbal cognitive response vs. situational, conjectural, coincidental response. Along with many others, I've had things "happen" to me that I surmised were answers to my prayers. But in retrospect, I can't really say that any of those events were more than coincidence. A prolonged conversation with God would be a totally different experience, eh?
IW, and Mr. Kim:
Do you think God should answer all prayers?
It's up to God what He does; He doesn't have to do anything. And it's up to me what I do, including asking for an overt verbal communication with God. It ain't happened, and I ain't worryin, about it.
Craig (of the catching up class)
PS: Valis
If I said Fred was just taking his time getting back to me, and no one had ever seen Fred or been contacted by Fred and there was no forensic or scientific evidence that Fred existed...would you believe me if I could relate the history of Fred for hours on end?
If I said I loved Fred and he was like a father to me....would you then believe me?
Fred is dead.
Jack
donkey, absence of evidence is not "proof" of anything. As I said to Realist, such conclusions are inductive, not deductive.
However, what is far more important is that "Fred is dead" for you. Fred could be "alive" to the rest of all humanity, but if he's dead to you, then he's dead to you.
Craig
Craig,
So people who hear voices? Are they sane or insane?
Jack
Sane when it's you, insane when it's anyone else.
Why should we, as humans, expect help from GOD or think that GOD owes us something?
Oh, because the God that people expect help from is a projection of the human mind.
No doubt this idea isn't new to many of us here, but if you stop and think about it not only is the popular idea of God most people hold a personal one, but actually it's pretty much the picture of a cosmic ego - God is supposed to be just like humans except he knows way more stuff and is a lot more powerful. This picture that most people have is the opposite of selflessness - not as an ideal in the sense of altruistic behavior, but as a fact of existence. Now granted in some traditions they have this idea of the Self with a capital S, but that means self without an other, which would pretty much render such questions about a relationship to God irrelevant. That Self is the same as no self. That is not the idea of a spiritual big brother that you have on your side, there is no side in that picture. Actually, it can only be this way if you're talking in absolute terms - any situation where you have a relationship only means it's relative.
But we don't really have to go there. Clearly most people use the word God in a specific way and I'm not particularly interested in semantics, but I think it is important to know your own mind to some extent. If when someone talks about God (or anything else for that matter) it is really a thought in their own head, (which more often than not is one they got from somewhere else, it is most definitely influenced by something else as the nature of thought is relative) then you have to ask whether this person is aware that it is only a thought they have, or a feeling, as a the case may be. It is one thing to qualify it by saying "I think and/or feel this way about God", but quite another to just say "This is God" - when it is only an idea in your mind. To see anything as it really is - which is to say to deal with reality directly rather than seeing it in a certain light - you have to see past your own thinking, your opinion about it. As far as I'm concerned you have to start seeing this way to really talk about things like this, otherwise it's just one idea or another, and talking about ideas is not the same as talking about what is real.
