Racial Insensitivity

by Coded Logic 127 Replies latest social current

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Are you from the US? If so did you grow up in the South as a white male? Did you hear N-word jokes since you were a baby? Have you had other whites presume upon your racism and use the N-word and explicitly explain their disgust for the race of people that are called this word? Do you have relatives that are proud of the fact that their high school is called Robert E Lee? - 'no' to all the above. I'm a honkey from England.

    White supremacy is alive and well around these parts - if true, this is most unfortunate. It needs to be sorted out.

    "Save the whales" never meant that other marine lives don't matter. It just meant we need to stop killing so many whales - ok.

    Blacks would like less blacks being shot by cops at the current rate. I don't think they are asking too much. And I can see, hear and feel why they have good reason for asking black people have - when racist cops abuse or unlawfully kill black people then black people are understandably outraged. Black people suffering for the colour of their skin is wrong. Something must be done.

    But what we were discussing was the Black Lives Matter movement. They have strong anti-cop sentiments, which has led to strong anti-cop actions. Starting a civil war against cops isn't the answer to this issue. The selection process for cops should be much stricter. Any cops stepping out of line should be punished. E.g. if you had an applicant to be a cop who had said racist, supremacist things on FaceBook and who'd applied to be a cop in a black area then that obviously shouldn't be allowed.

    Let me ask one question: if racist white cops changed so that didn't say racist words, treated black people like white people, would people within the Black Lives Matter movement respect cops' authority? If a cop ordered them to put their hands up, would they obey?

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups
    dubstepped
    If cops are fixing reports to make things look better why would one assume they're only doing so when blacks are involved?

    Not ALL cops fix reports, not ALL incidences need report "tweaking". Not ALL cops are morons. But since many that serve / have served as cops view blacks as less than human and perhaps have other mental problems, the tweaking will become more necessary when/if they are mistreating and/or killing blacks.

    Cops are human, some are good, some aren't. I bought a cop lunch a couple of months ago as we sat at a bar one mid-afternoon. I had lots of questions for him about all of these issues. He believed that police forces aren't perfect, but they are better than they used to be. I believe him.

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups
    Let me ask one question: if racist white cops changed so that didn't say racist words, treated black people like white people, would people within the Black Lives Matter movement respect cops' authority? If a cop ordered them to put their hands up, would they obey? unilover

    I would like for the cop to overcome their white supremacy complex and disdain for blacks for sure, if that is what's going on in their head. Not just treat "blacks like whites". People within the BLM movement? Some are assholes/idiots, some are not. What percentage of blacks are responding to the proliferation of all the shocking smart phone videos in the best way? I don't now. Surely it's not 100 percent. I like the idea of more video cameras. That way when a suspect is resisting arrest, there is evidence. I get angry when I see someone disrespecting a cop for no good reason and making their job harder than it is. The same goes for a cop that is misusing their authority.

    And thank you for acknowledging my questions. As you can see I have some perspective on this subject. Bonus factoid: I have an uncle that is a KKK member.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    I like the idea of more video cameras - yes, me too. Then the evidence is there for a jury to see.

    I get angry when I see someone disrespecting a cop for no good reason - yes, this is wrong. Disobeying a reasonable request from a cop is also wrong.

    The same goes for a cop that is misusing their authority - yes, this needs sorting out.

    My point is that racist cops is a problem that needs sorting out. Starting a kind of low-grade civil war against the cops (Black Lives Matter seems to advocate this) is unbelievably stupid and unworkable - and will possibly lead to more deaths.

    So, stricter selection process for cop applicants, high standards for cop behaviour and procedures, and punishing errant cops should eventually sort this out.

    What then? When the cops have been improved, will African-American citizens accept that cops have authority over them? Will they listen when a cop says "put your hands up" or "get on the ground"? I suspect that this is an issue in this community.

    You know, I'm white, and if a white citizen was ordered by a cop to put his hands in the air and he disobeyed, instead becoming violent and reaching for the cop's gun, I wouldn't be that surprised or upset if the cop used lethal force. He should have listened to the cop and obeyed his instructions.

  • Simon
    Simon
    Blacks would like less blacks being shot by cops at the current rate

    Here's what I think the situation is and what the black lives matter movement "is" and the problem with it ...

    Black people are more likely to be stopped by police in many places. There are easily reasons for this that are not racist - responding to reports of crime, types of vehicle violations etc... and the simple fact that crime tends to attract police (you'd hope) so they should spend more time in higher-crime communities than lower-crime ones.

    When stopped they are more likely to have non lethal force applied ... this can be a combination of attitude of those stopped or attitude and expectations of the police.

    But as the report shows, they are less likely to be shot by the police and it is extremely rare. I can't imagine any officer wanting to shoot someone intentionally without justification - it is possibly career ending and life altering even if you are 100% in the right. Just look at the cop in Ferguson. As the report shows, I just don't think there is evidence that shooting of black people by white cops is the problem some want us to believe.

    But, black people and the black lives matter movement have latched on to police shootings as something to use as proxies for their complaints over other things. Lets not forget that a lot of this was sparked by the Trayvon Martin case and specifically the altered audio played by certain media to present a false account and suggest racial motivation.

    Things have snowballed from there and a hyperbolic language about how they are being hunted and killed by cops (to hear them tell it) has ramped up to become the "must be accepted narrative or else we'll call you racist". The blm supporters jump on any situation regardless of the right or wrong of the case itself and this obvious support for criminals and false claims puts many people off from taking the claims seriously.

    Now, whenever anyone tries to discuss it, we have blm supporters trying to prove their claim by pointing to the greater likelihood of being stopped and use of non-lethal force and others pointing that out this doesn't prove the shooting claims. Again, this happened in Ferguson - we went from "white cops are hunting us down" to "but we pay slightly more traffic fines".

    So to bring things full circle back to the OP about the sheriff's comments. He's right - what they are complaining about is BS and the anti-cop rhetoric is dangerous. It seems increased violence is the only place the blm movement has to go because they have set themselves up so that they can't back down due to the claims they have made and they can't prove them except to try and make it happen.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    The solution is likely to be smaller improvements to policing that are unlikely to be possible without a community that takes part in the improvements (i.e. lighter-touch policing is more difficult at a time when negative attitudes are being ramped up). The police can't step back from responding to criminal behavior and doing so will cost far, far more black lives if they do.

    I think an important question to ask is what do blm actually want? Every time they are on TV they like to chant and shout accusations and repeat the claims (even often with the names of the discredited cases) but rarely have I seen anything concrete and actionable.

    It seems to have gone from "we're going to shut this highway down unless we get what we want" to "we're going to shut this highway down". Is that it? Is it just the opportunity to inflict some disruption and inconvenience as 'pay back' to try and even the score? What's the end game and how do they think they get there.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I agree with the basic tenants of "Black Lives Matter." And Trevor Noah makes some great points in that video posted right after the opening post. Many black boys are being unwatched as their mother works two jobs and takes too long to take too many buses home, while they don't know their father who went to jail or died. Those black boys, without knowing their fathers, follow their fathers' paths in life quite often. The cycle continues.

    So I don't care for trivializing "Black Lives Matter" with "ALL Lives Matter." But "Blue Lives Matter" was inevitable as people hiding behind "Black Lives Matter" became violent against police. That goes back to Ferguson, Missouri and goes right up to the killing of officers.

    What happens in America is polarization. People think they have to be all the way in or all the way out, all the way left or all the way right. Isn't it possible that "Black Lives Matter" is very very much in touch with the problem, AND the violence that results in the death of police officers is way out of line?

    I fully get that sometimes, only radical reaction is taken seriously. But does it have to be radical and violent against people? If traffic cameras are wrong, protesters smash traffic cameras. If blacks are being wrongfully arrested and shot too easily upon arrest, wouldn't the answer be to organize support for legal action to defend wrongfully arrested blacks and to train blacks how to respond in such a way as to minimize being shot while being detained? ...and then to sue the jurisdictions that arrest and kill them?

    It isn't politically correct to say that some of the people arrested are the scum of the earth and deserve a beat-down. And because of that, insisting that police wear cameras that work will go a long way toward proving your case. And it will allow cops to feel that when they need to shoot, the camera will back them up.

    I understand that it is your right to not answer questions when arrested, to challenge being unjustly detained, to be uncooperative with improper requests from police. And I understand that your average white people don't face such problems as DRIVING WHILE BLACK in a white neighborhood. DRIVING WHILE WHITE in a black neighborhood is not at all the same. I get that white collar workers can misuse cocaine or prescription drugs or get a cab home from the local drinking establishment, while blacks get arrested for similar cocaine use or misuse of prescription drugs or they wind up drinking and driving or just drinking and walking drunk on the street. But if you want to win people over to "Black Lives Matter," you have to continue the work of men like Martin Luther King, Jr. and demonstrate that black people are better than the reputation given them.

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups

    About the OP,

    Sheriff David Clarke is a disgrace to humanity, but especially the black race. He's speaking at the RNC, that pretty much says it all.

    Republican Party, Jehovah's Witnesses, both suffer from similar delusions.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Who exactly gets to decide who is and isn't "a disgrace to the black race"? Is there a secret governing body for black people that decides how everyone must think? Come to think of it, is there some authoritative body for white people ... because I think I might have been dropped off the mailing list - I've been thinking my own thoughts for years now and just generally deciding things for myself.

    Seriously, the idea that someone is "a disgrace to their kind" is rarely the sign of a well thought out and reasonable stance.

    I'd still love to hear Coded Logic's answer to my question:

    If 100 white men and 100 black men resist arrest and 50 white men and 50 black men are shot as a result, do you believe that is unfair and shows any bias? Please explain why.

  • Simon
    Simon
    If 100 white men and 100 black men resist arrest and 50 white men and 50 black men are shot as a result, do you believe that is unfair and shows any bias? Please explain why.

    I don't blame coded logic for refusing to answer this because it would mean he either demonstrates incredible bias or contradicts his previous claims. Here's why we need to base everything off the whether shootings are justified or not and the proportion of people shot in similar situations:

    If you instead try to base things off the percentage of the general population you end up with the frankly ridiculous situation where babies being born changes the figures. Yes, if people elsewhere have unprotected sex then it alters whether too many black men have been shot by police (!).

    That's a good test for whether your stats are meaningful or based on faulty reasoning - and why black lives matter can't conduct a reasoned argument.

    When you're trying to decide if the police are more or less likely to shoot someone based on race then the "population" is the pool of people who present themselves in that situation. Population is a statistical term and doesn't relate to the population as in "the total number of black people in America".

  • minimus
    minimus

    It's bs to say those who militantly promote black lives matter are not racist..... If I ever promoted white lives matter because I say that whites very much slighted and abused, you would call me a racist. But if blacks say it, it's not. Stupid reasoning.

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