Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jhine

    If l have this right what exactly was the point of telling people that it was too late for them and they were going to die ?

    Jan from Tam

  • Jeffro
    That good news will become more hard-hitting as time goes on, causing people to make a decision one way or the other, whether they accept the Kingdom or not.

    Maybe they should focus more on saying things that are actually true rather than (hypothetically) trying harder to intimidate people into their nutty religion with fallacious appeals to fear.

  • Bill Covert
    Bill Covert

    Hailstone message, hard hitting waters of truth. My recollection goes the the "Babylon the Great" book. Fred Franz and co. made "hailstone messages" a major part of the 1975, great tribulation build up. Providing evidence of God's backing of the church. These "hard hitting waters of truth messages" were aimed a Babylon the Great aka as Catholic and Orthodox churches. They were goads, sharp sticks to poke in the eyes of false religion. There were special campaigns to distribute these messages.

    Those "hard hitting waters of truth" messages have born fruit. The Russian Orthodox Church has instituted pay backs on innocent people now that Communism has fallen [King of the North down the tube] and Putin has elevated the Orthodox Church.

    A couple of weeks ago the JW church in Mariupol Ukraine was in the news raided by the police.

    Well done Fred Franz.

  • no-zombie

    The 'Hailstone message' is an interpretation of one or two verses at best. And I have always seen it as a warning not for worldly people, but just as another tool to scare Witnesses into not leaving the Organization.

    Just as we were days away from Armageddon, then minutes and now seconds ... the Governing Body has fewer and fewer hyperboles left, to convince the Brotherhood as to the nearness of the end. Thus the appearance of this 'understanding' about a message of judgement.

    But what good would it do, if it was real anyway. The telling billions of people that no matter what they do, they are soon going to die by having the flesh melt from there faces or by having their bodies crushed by oversized hail ... that is a thing that Satan would gleefully say.

    No ... we are not going to hear anymore about the 'Hailstone message' if the Governing Body wants to portray their Faith as a kinder, more humanistic religion to attract the masses. Its just not compatible, with the new direction they feel the spirit is leading them.

  • Mikejw

    There is no point in a hailstorm message and actually no point in ministry now. There is no point being a JW either as Br Jackson said you don’t have to wish your unrighteous loved ones have to die before Armageddon. The unrighteous may make it into the new world if they die before or are still alive when it starts.

  • mikeflood

    Maybe the hailstorm message was Tony's idea....anyway they could opten for a 'light hailstorm message ' and declare it over....nothing surprise me anymore en the JW land.

  • nicolaou
    Mikejw: The unrighteous may make it into the new world if they die before or are still alive when it starts

    Jesus! Am I going to be forced into this 'paradise' abomination against my will? How do I make sure I don't get in?

  • slimboyfat

    You can’t. You’ll be saved and you’ll be happy about it. 🙂

    If JWs fully embrace universalism then this will be a massive step in the right direction because I think it’s true.


  • Mikejw

    The new light is that we can’t be dogmatic and we don’t know who of the unrighteous will be resurrected or who of the unrighteous will not be slaughtered at Armageddon.

    Its a huge change because up until recently the official doctrine was always only baptism can save you, possibly children of baptised may just about make it but it’s going to be very hard. But if you died beforehand then you would be resurrected unless you were really really bad.

    Now they brought out this new light that it’s silly to hope your unrighteous loved ones die beforehand because they may make it through Armageddon unless they are really really bad.

    so basically now billions of people will make it through? Lloyd Evans used to say those pictures of the new world showed perfect parks landscaped over the bodies of 8 billion people.

    Now it seems the new light is that not that many will be slaughtered at Armageddon?

    This really is the opposite of a nothing burger that Lloyd said it was, it’s probably one of the largest changes in the history of the organisation. Now Billions of unrighteous may survive Armageddon and Billions more unrighteous getting resurrected

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    Billions more unrighteous getting resurrected

    I first read this as 'Billions more righteous getting unresurrected'. Made me wonder that the WT hasn't come up with the word 'unresurrected' yet. Maybe that will be the next new light!

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