the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart 114 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Incognito

    Unfortunately, WT is not transparent with financial information never mind other data. It's not like other corporations which publish and offer a yearly (and quarterly) audited financial reports to the public.

    Cut backs and branch closures in themselves do not prove much. WT has adopted the new way of distributing information in the 21st century, as has been adopted by numerous other organizations

    Why print, bind, warehouse and ship paper when the same information can be distributed inexpensively to their target audience, virtually any where in the world through a digital pipeline. Of course, since so many people were utilized in the production and distribution of paper literature, those people and numerous additional support staff are no longer needed.

    With digital, the printing costs are transferred to the target audience (JWs) since their audience who want to read that information, then need a computer, tablet or other device. If any of the target audience want a hard copy, they need to arrange printing to paper at their own expense.

    WT currently have little new information to offer, unlike when F Franz was their 'oracle'. WT find themselves presenting the same, over and over again so they may as well present once and use that info for a longer time period, all while claiming 'simplification', growth and speeding up of the warning work.

    Since most JWs with devices won't bother printing and keeping paper, changes to doctrine are easily performed to the online master document, which will immediately update info utilized by the majority of JWs.

  • pepperheart

    but why do they say they have not got the resources to a normal formatt december broadcast and to translate the 143 gilead into lots of lanuages ?

  • Drearyweather
    but why do they say they have not got the resources to a normal formatt december broadcast and to translate the 143 gilead into lots of lanuages ?

    Because at the moment all languages do not have the number of translators to translate a broadcasting program and a Gilead program simultaneously and release it in December.

    It is simpler to translate written material, however it is very complicated to translate videos and especially talks with spontaneous speech and then put the translated voice-over on it.

    Money can buy you buildings, but can't give you translators overnight.

  • wizzstick

    That's interesting. I've only managed to locate and visit Grace Communion International congregations. I can't find any active WWCG splinter groups locally. I was told by a Grace Communion International member that there were a few adherents of a splinter group called "United Church of God" in Scotland but they didn't last long and have no active congregations in Scotland. Maybe one in Newcastle, I was told.

    This is something I have found: just because a group has a presence on the Internet, doesn't necessarily mean they have a functioning church in the real world. I think some of the WWCG splinter groups faded away pretty quickly and exist in name only. (On that, I suspect that the "Lord's Witnesses" may be as real as Gordon Ritchie's chronology. Has anyone ever been to any of their meetings to verify they exist?)

    The church headed by Jospeh Tkach (pronounced t-catch) is by far the biggest, although it has shrunk a lot. By the way I heard from an insider that Tkach is retiring next year. I wonder how that will work and if it will survive without him.

    Interesting thoughts there.

    The GCI Wikipedia page has some interesting points that could in time end up applying to the Org.

    In general, Tkach Sr. directed the church theology towards mainstream evangelical Christian belief mostly against the wishes of his congregations and they were given no input as he had maintained the same structure as Mr Armstrong. This caused much disillusionment among the membership and another rise of splinter groups. All these changes, the church admits, have organizationally brought about "catastrophic results," though they believe that it is spiritually the best thing that ever happened to them.

    Though many of the current members, however still follow his basic beliefs and would consider the current administration as apostate despite still attending.

    Today, the GCI headquarters has downsized for financial survival. The denomination sold much of its property, including sites used for festivals, campsites built for teenagers, its college campuses, and private aircraft.[citation needed] They discontinued publishing all the books, booklets and magazines published by Armstrong.
    To further economize, the church sold its properties in Pasadena and purchased an office building in Glendora, California.
  • Drearyweather

    8 million members.

    The greatest asset any religion has is its members.Cults and religions survive because they always have a group of members that believe what they say.

  • Incognito

    'Resources' is an undefined entity.

    Resources' could be:


    Working space


    Internet bandwidth



    All of the above

    Something else?

  • slimboyfat

    JWs have no culture of contributing to their organisation. Only when you observe the fanaticism with which other groups collect tithes (Mormons and SDAs in particular) do you realise how dramatically in deficit WT is (metaphorically and literally) when it comes to collecting money. The membership is not currently an asset to Watchtower, it is a liability. Which is why the GB are no longer eager to promote growth, especially in poor countries. Each member added is a net liability not an asset, due to decades of mismanagement and bad strategic decisions.

  • Incognito
    JWs have no culture of contributing to their organisation.

    By culture, I expect you mean history.

    If so, how did WT not only exist for the past 120+ years, but grow to become a very wealthy religion and publishing empire?

    What do you call JWs who give their productive years to offering their lives to bethel service with no reward or guarantee of being cared for in their later years?

    What do you call JWs who leave their families, to not have children, to volunteer their lives in missionary service?

    What do you call JWs who give numerous hours each month to preaching door to door at their own expense?

  • _Morpheus

    @incognito- your earlier point regarding not being transparent on fincial status is something that i always take to mean they are better off than some hope. If they were really struggling they would be more transparent and use it to say ‘hey we need help, see!’. They dont because they know showing their cards would cause donations to drop since it would be apparent that they are ok.

    Also dont take it personally when slim ignores all your logic. He just wants it so bad he has utterly convinced himself the wt is falling and nothing will change his mind. Dont stop trying (im not) but dont take it personally.

  • Incognito

    _Morpheus: I agree with your reasoning in your first paragraph.

    I don't take it personally as I've experienced numerous decades as an active JW and was always astounded when JWs choose to ignore obvious contradictions, even within presentations from the platform, never mind in private conversation.

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