by mattnoel 108 Replies latest jw friends
And what do you make of Sunspot's experience? Did she just imagine that the fork lifted up and hung in midair? How did a record player turn on and off when it was unplugged? There are some things that can't be blamed on teenagers playing pranks or the family cat and dog.
"....There are many explanations for such things......"
Such as..........................?????
There are many more possibilities than just "ghosts".
Such as...............???
So, in short I advance the theory that unless paranormal powers can be shown to have some non-survival benefit, or are a new thing in human evolution, they just don't exist, as their is no explaination for them coming about, and natural selection can't develop things for fun, it can only develop things due to selection pressure.
Naturalistic evolution cannot provide a satisfactory explanation for supernatural phenomena. Therefore those who believe in evolution are bound to reject for example the existence of angelic or demonic phenomena or other phenomena which indicates that humans have a spiritual soul. Therfore they will invoke psychological phenomena to try to explain these things.
Those of us who believe in the biblical account of creation which provides for humans to have a soul within them as well as the creation of spiritual beings above humans such as angels, will tend to be more open to believe these experiences as being possible, since creation offers an "explanation for them coming about." I myself have interviewed many people (even people who are not "religious") and have concluded that there is way too much stuff going on in order to be explained by naturalistic phenomena. Of course these things may not be testable by the "scientific method" however that does not mean that they have not occurred.
Mary,
You are like the UFO enthusiast who sees a light in the sky and can see no other explanation than aliens from a distant galaxy. Talk about gross dismissal of Occham's Razor.
Hooberus,
I doubt your interviews were exhaustive investigations.
rem
No they weren't "exhaustive investigations"
However, these experiences weren't like people seeing a distant light and then making a guess that it came from aliens.
They are like seeing the marker on an ouija board move on its own (with no one touching it!) and spelling out personal information. Another common phenomena is for an ouija board to be thrown away or even destroyed and then to find it sitting back on the dresser the next day, just like before. I even know withches who won't use an ouija board because of uncontrollable phenomena. Of course I believe that the ouija board is demonic and a forbidden practice for the Christian, however experiences like those I just described are quite common even for those who are unbelieving in the supernatural.
Ouija board is a Parker Brothers game. It's not ancient. It's not demonic. It doesn't work when the participants are blindfolded. The planchet has never been recorded moving on its own. You, my friend, have been duped into believing urban legends.
rem
Didn't ouija boards exist before parker brothers? I know that attempted demonic communication did. Do you expect deamons to perform in front of a camera, so that later athiests may be convinced of the supernatural and may even come to believe in spiritual things?
If I have been duped it has not been by "legends", but by many eyewitnesses who have given me direct testimony, including people that I know.
Hooberus,
Look up the history of the Ouija board. It did not exist before Parker Brothers.
Your argument about demons performing in front of atheists is just silly. This is a classic non-falsifiable ad hoc theory. It is not even worthy of discussion among intellectually honest adults.
There seems to be a type of feedback loop with believers. People tell stories, believers suck them up without any skepticism. The stories get recounted and exaggerated. No one questions the story and it just keeps getting more and more fantastic. Believers are their own worst enemies when it comes to being duped by stories like these. They are not only the dupees, but fellow dupers.
rem
Well Well Well Mattnoel!!
You have started something here....
I quite agree with the telepathy 'thing', when I was in contact with my family, some 300 miles apart, we would quite often think about one another, and then the phone rang..dum dum dum dum... also I would know if something was wrong (aarrgghh what is happening the print has changed - Matt what are you doing LOL), I would call and I was usually right...
Oh well not as exciting as the others that have posted.
Mind you though, I have to admit that since leaving the JWs, this type of subject no longer bothers me... strange!
Mrs NW (C)
And what do you make of Sunspot's experience? Did she just imagine that the fork lifted up and hung in midair? How did a record player turn on and off when it was unplugged? There are some things that can't be blamed on teenagers playing pranks or the family cat and dog.
"There are many explanations for such things. You take stories at face value. I do not."
There ARE? I'd enjoy hearing them! You said she takes stories at face value. Well.....someone started a topic about "Paranormal Experiences" and I thought I'd share MINE.......if I was gonna MAKE UP a "story", I sure woulda made it a helluva lot more interesting! I know you don't know me, but why assume that I'm NOT telling the truth? Your reply was a bit demeaning.
"You probably beleive a whole host of urban legends. I do not. I believe with further investigation a prosaic cause would be found for this story. There are many more possibilities than just "ghosts."
I have no idea what a prosaic cause is, but since it happened in 1967 and in another state, there IS no way to go back and investigate, is there? And if there are more "possibilities" than ghosts, what would they be?
As for the fork incident, I never SAID it was ghosts, I only told what happened, the WAY it happened, I have no reason to do otherwise, or embellish the "story" to please anyone.
Unfortunately, what started out as a very interesting thread, has gotten a bit nasty. NOW if someone wants to post something that they've experienced of a paranormal nature, they'll be in line for being challenged as untruthful, or being picked apart and scrutinized for "prosaic causes"........too bad. It could have been fun.
Annie
Sunspot,
I never said you did not experience what you said you did. Also, my comments were not directed toward you. You should read more carefully.
There are many other explanations other than ghosts. Unfortunately, like you said, the episode happened long ago and there was no evidence of it. That means that investigating these other explanations is probably impossible now.
rem
