What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Fisherman

    An eternal superbeing of infinite power needing to be crucified by the Romans before he can do anything? Not so much.

    God could have killed Satan a long time ago, but he did not, so he has his good reasons why he does things his way but it is not because he is not Almighty.

  • Vidiot

    jookbeard - "This event loses more ad more credibility as each year passes, I wonder how much longer it can be believed?"

    As long as the GB find it useful.

  • whathehadas
    @Fisherman So....let me get this right. Let's say that there is psychopath who rapes your wife, molests your kids, kills the dog, and does the same to your neighbors. You know who the guy is and you call the police. The Police lieutenant tells you that the guy has already been prosecuted in court before the Judge, he's just waiting for a sentence but until that time.....he's free. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?
  • Fisherman

    "This event loses more ad more credibility as each year passes, I wonder how much longer it can be believed?"

    For those that never saw the event, the event never had any significance to begin with. For those that believe the event occurred based on a teaching without any proof of the event can stop believing for any reason at any time For those convinced that the event did occur in 1914 do not need any more evidence to be convinced, or to make the event any more of a fact. They know. The problem for these later ones is what they concluded from the evidence that they saw and see. They concluded that they would be in a paradise earth in a couple of years and that ain't happening. The Jews did not need to see any more manna coming down from heaven or Moses hitting any more rocks to give them water, they saw that all of the time. They wanted relief.The people that experienced the evidence from Jesus signs did not need to see any more to believe, they were convinced but they still needed to know " when will these things be" and they still got their heads chopped off and killed and died like everybody else (yet even as they were dying, they knew what they knew to be a fact.) The churches that Jesus spoke to recorded in the book of Revelation also had all the evidence to know that the events were facts and they were still getting into trouble -because it is not about evidence Once again, it is not about credibility, it is about relief, the realization of the reward. That is why people loose faith.

  • Simon
    God could have killed Satan a long time ago, but he did not, so he has his good reasons why he does things his way but it is not because he is not Almighty.

    wave hands and say "it's a mystery" - thus explaining the world once and for all.

    Yeah, couldn't possibly be the bleedin' obvious explanation that all the evidence points to - that he simply doesn't exist !

  • Simon

    Fisherman: if Jesus was raised as a spirit then when he showed his disciples holes in his hands and feet was he being deceitful? If it was deceit then why should anyone believe their story? Couldn't it have been any spirit creature materializing a body? Why get they holes right but not the face? If he could just materialize a body then why did he have to be born in the first place ... so god could get busy with a virgin?

    And what happened to him "rebuilding the temple of his body" in 3 days as he claimed he would if in fact ... he didn't.

    Liar / loser - what is the point of him?

    Let me guess the answer .... [wave hands] "it's all a mystery"

    ... then what is the point of having people write the fucking book???

  • Fisherman

    wave hands and say "it's a mystery"

    Simon, if your thinking is like mine then you do not buy into any hypothesis' or theorems or arguments, or testimonies, or hearsay recorded in any books or religions proclaiming a whole bunch of stuff (nonetheless it can considerable or even integral but not on its own) in concluding that something is real, a fact. I need a talking horse or I don't buy it. I am more skeptical than most people and my mind needs a lot more evidence to be convinced that something is true than most people.. And everybody is different some people need more proof others less. But each person knows what he needs to be convinced. But some people are gullible and just swallow anything to be true, and others just cannot see at all in-spite of the facts because they are blind or because motive or something else colors their view. Thomas was convinced.

    People have a problem distinguishing belief from knowledge, and evidence from a conclusion from the evidence as I wrote about in my previous post.

    A lot of people were born into a religion like jews and moslems for example, and I have spoken to scientist and doctors and lawyers and judges that are so enveloped in the thinking of such religions that inspite of their analytical thinking skills, they believe nonensical unscientific teachings of their religions.

    It is also possible to be convinced using non-falacious logical thinking that an event occurred, same way a jury or a judge can be persuaded or convinced (or beguiled) to conclude that something is true. But no one will put their head on the chopping block because they just do not know -If did not see it happen.

    Some fanatics will put their heads on the chopping blocks thinking that what they believe is fact. They are mistaken.

    And then there exists evidence that can be measured. When YOU measure evidence YOU know it is real. But even then, you can fool yourself into concluding too much from evidence.

    The only way YOU know if some supernatural reality exists is if YOU can measure it physically somehow.

    Assuming that it does, not being able to understand it or not being able to reconcile what seems to be impossible about it do not invalidate that it is real. It appears to me though that a supernatural reality should follow the same rules of logic as physical reality if God required faith. It has to be able to be explained somehow in human terms and that is what the Bible is all about. The Bible explains the interphase relationship between the physical and the supernatural realm. Like a programing language you need to learn the syntax of the Bible with the mind-frame that the language works . It is all consistent and everything ties in together and everything can be logically reconciled. But a person can also say that the language does not work and never bother to learn it.The aproach to understanding the Bible is to learn it as an entire poem. An ironic poem crossword puzzle It is not an easy thing to do and it takes a lot of workbut everything fits together nicely once you get to that point when you get the whole picture -not that you undersand the meaning of everything but your mind is staisfied that you read enough to be convinced.

    Bottom line is justice then relief. People need relief not proof but proof is the only solid basis (faith) to believe in relief. JWs do not need more proof.They would not be surprised to see angles come and go or any supernatural evidence whatsoever. It is comforting and faith strengthening but to JW it is not about evidence.

  • Fisherman


    That is extremely painful for me seeing people suffer and feeling helpless not being able to bring them relief but it is also an extremely joyful experience to see when people that were spiritually blind and deaf realize that they can see and hear.

  • atomant
    lf this whole fiasco is true about god and jesus and satan it may very well be that god is allowing this whole situation here on earth to continue to prove once and for all time that man can not manage themselves without divine intervention thereby giving god a universal sovereign right to rule without having to justify himself.Or mankind might have been seeded by an advanced race of aliens .Take your pick.
  • Perry

    They haven't been cast down yet. I think it will be pretty obvious when they are.

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