What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • myelaine
    myelaine
    dear westiebilly11...
    I consider that according to the bible angels don't look much different than we do and so perhaps saying their own dna isn't quite right. Isn't it true that because of the work of Christ man will himself have a body like unto Jesus...which was able to move between dimensions after His resurrection?

    God created the angelic body to inhabit the heavens. Like the resurrected Christ it wasn't a "spirit" body...it was called a spiritual body. Like the resurrected Christ, flesh and bone (but not blood)

    remember that God put enmity between satan's SEED and the woman's seed. Interestingly it is satan's angels that reproduced with women. It may be that a woman's "seed" (ovum) doesn't have this "spirit potential" (?) of corruption as male seed does (male angels)...hence the eventual birth of the perfect man through a woman. Which isn't to say women can't be spiritually corrupted but the bible says that the male angels became spiritually corrupted and had children with women and that the seed of these male angels PRODUCED spiritually corrupted offspring...demons.

    I had a lengthy discussion with a lady and it boiled down to this: if you are actually casting demons out of your congregants then your church is in big trouble. The only defence is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    Here are some excerpts:

    (Tracy) ok... I wanted to say thank you sister for your comments. However, we will have to agree to disagree on the subject that christians cannot have demons. I have been anointed for the deliverance ministry. My team and I cast demons out of born again christians through Jesus Christ almost every day. It is simply amazing how the Holy Spirit moves in this ministry! Can I ask you something? Can/would the Holy Spirit dwell in the same area as sin?
    (Me)Christians sin. A christian sinning isn't the same thing as having another entity within you. Sin is not one and the same as a demon. If that is your position then you haven't made a distinction between a real entity called a demon and the actions he inspires. Or conversely, the Holy Spirit and the action He inspires.
    I understand that you believe that christians are coming to you and that you are casting out their demons...but...the idea that a demon can dwell in the same body as the Holy Spirit is completely foreign to scripture. A born again believer is a sanctified vessel and is called the temple of the Living God precisely because of the presence of the Holy Spirit.
    In other words...God wont share His "space" with a demon regardless of what you sincerely believe.
    (Tracy)deliverance is the children's bread! As a matter of fact, the last thing Jesus commanded before he went into heaven was for his ppl to cast out demons in the last chapter of Luke. The Biblical version of blaspheming the Holy Spirit was when they would attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to the work of satan. I would be very careful coming against the Lord's deliverance ministry!
    (Me) Tracy, demons are cast out before the Holy Spirit enters. Aside of the fact that you're not understanding the theological implications of what you're saying...you're not understanding what the bible is saying. The signs and wonders were a precursor TO belief.
    When you say demons can live in the same body as the Holy Spirit and then say I believe this because this other deliverance ministry says they can...that is circular reasoning.
    The BIBLE text does not support the idea that the Holy Spirit can dwell in the same body as a demon. Before He was glorified, Jesus saw satan cast out of heaven. Heaven itself was cleansed before Jesus entered...it typifies the earthly sequence. A person is born again, the Holy Spirit "abodes" in them and demons are already gone.
    Allow me to show you ephesians 6:12-17...the whole armour of God is "designed" to be a defence against the demons. If it doesn't provide protection (for the believer) from demon possession then it isn't very useful, is it?

    (Tracy) if they are cast out before the Holy Spirit what was the thorn in the flesh in Paul?
    (Me) The bible doesn't say but it is commonly held to be the loss of sight. Honestly if it was a demon in paul, why would Jesus say, "My grace is sufficient for you."...in essence Jesus would be saying there's NO NEED to cast out demons if you have His grace. You'd be out of "business", so to speak.
    (Tracy) it was a messenger from satan... IN the flesh.... yes, it was a demon indeed! I dont make any money so I dont have a business....lol....
    (Me) Paul's partial blindness was spoken of as a deficiency that he thought hindered his mission (therefore anything that hindered his mission he saw as a messenger of satan) Jesus' response indicates that His grace was sufficient for paul to carry on with his ministry. Otherwise, Jesus was saying...you can continue your ministry with that demon in you. The principle behind "a house divided can not stand" would have no meaning what so ever.
    😊 I didn't mean to insinuate that you made any money for what you do. It was simply a phrase like doing the Lord's "work"...there isn't any money in it but we are about the "business" of our Father.
    (Me) Tracy, waging war on the host of hell is not casting demons out of born again believers. The scriptures don't agree with you...the Holy Spirit will not dwell in the same body as a demon. That IS one of the first principles of God!!!

  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    Am I missing something?

    Plaese add open points for clearing with the service department:

    - what did Satan in Heaven before 1914
    - why happened in this heavenly war
    - what means thrown down unto earth

    ....

    _______

    What if the whole story is only a distraction?

    As clecer devil and master of distraction he knew that the bible, the book he hated, already had fortold 1914 years in advance that he would be thrown out 1914 from heaven down to earth ...impossible? but moment:

    "to the vicinity of the earth" or "to the earth"? Was it no directly unto the earth and not to the vicinity as the slope W "w" writes.? Does w again misinterprete bible?

    As even the least green bible reader must know that satan was dissed, Satan would not langer have fun in watching war and murder alone if any looser already knew that he was the spirit behind evil.

    So he hacked out a new plan, he wanted to destroy the religions and the trust in god and religion finally. Noone should trust christians muslim and buddhist. How could he achieve that. With the fraternal wars it had already begun, but no the basis of all beliefes had to be destroyed and weakened by proofed science, bible exegesis and logic thinking and the Enlightment as well as Humanism and Philosophy. The enlightened could be one group and the cultist the other group, who could again fight each other and satan would watch how they hate each other. Tthat would be a story for tomoorow.Good night everybody, I go sleep.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear TheWonderofYou...

    I suspect you are missing something. If you had read the comments on your thread you would have noticed that I commented on something someone had said about the war between God and satan and then someone asked me more questions, which I tried to answer.

    Sometimes on forums people have comments and questions on the periphery of the OP.

    so, what do you intend to do with these points once they're collected? How are you planning to get an audience with the service department?

    xo

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    Raising Hell.... In heaven and literally preparing a place for them down here. LOL

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    Why didn't Jehovah stop the angels from abusing women? Why doesn't Jehovah have laws against angels murdering and abusing humans.

  • freddo
    freddo

    @TheWonderofYou

    Satan must have got bored with enjoying using war to kill humans after "lobbing the atomic bombs" - apparently 80 million (3.5% of a world population of 2.3 Billion in 1945) were killed from 1914 - 1945 and "only" 20 million (0.29% of a world population of 7.0 Billion) in the 70 plus years since.

  • Darkknight757
    Darkknight757

    This thing with Satan makes a good argument for the way disfellowshipped people are treated. If God in all his wisdom had dealings with the instigator of all things for thousands of years, why should we treat fellow humans who may have done something much less on the scales of justice like lepers? 🤔

    If ever I get put before a judicial committee I will ask that question.🤓

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Great post! Very thought provoking!

    I think that you mean: “What is Satan and demons doing in heaven before he is kicked out of there.”(It does not make any difference to your question when he is kicked out, 1914 or any other date.)

    Here is my opinion:

    Satan and his demon are resisting God’s will and his Holy Spirit in heaven. The war that broke out in heaven shows that Satan is in opposition to God in heaven.

    Seems that Satan (I also mean his demons also) has God given power and authority that God entrusted to him when he was a Holy angel and he continued to exercise it, in opposition to God until the war takes place, the time when God kicks him out. In the Bible, Satan is referred to as the god of this world and the ruler of this world in connection with the earth. This title (god) describes Satan’s great power and authority and ruler ship and will over the earth and humanity, but such great power (god) can only be held from heaven. After the war in heaven when he is cast down to earth (whatever that means literally since he continues to exist in a spirit realm - but not in heaven,) heaven is secure and God can operate from there without opposition and Satanic presence (what a relief for all the angels-and for God.)

    So, what was Satan doing in heaven? Satan had been entrusted with power and authority when he was a holy angel, (same as when a Sovereign entrusts some entity with delegated power, nuclear or otherwise, and then the empowered trustee turns on the Sovereign to achieve his own means or he tries to take over in opposition to the Sovereign; his time will come when he will be stopped, no doubt about that, but in the meantime he causes a lot of harm and damage while he is in power.) he continued to use that power and authority in opposition to God until the time came when he was dealt with, that time is the war with Michael.

  • Listener
    Listener
    The Lord's prayer, spoken in the first century by Jesus, is an acknowledgement that God's will had already been completed in heaven. How is it that Satan and his demons were still able to reside or even move between heaven and earth up until 1914 if this was the case?
  • berrygerry
    berrygerry

    So, what were they doing in heaven? Were they "harrassing" Jehovah, and Jesus? Were they "misleading" other "good" angels?

    There is a documentary on what had actually transpired:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY

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