Marc & Cora on YouTube causing unnecessary divisions
The main problem these couple have with Cedars right now is his support for the JWs in Russia. Apparently he's said he thinks they should not be banned and that he would go out and give them coffee if the JWs would stand out with protest signs etc.
They seriously disagree with this as do I and put out some very good reasons why the JWs are in fact an extremist group and per the Russian constitution can be banned.
Thnanks , Jambon1
I agree with you.
Bickering is pointless
Bickering is pointless
Bickering is pointless
Srop, Vader !
I agree with Cedars. It's counter productive.
I personally know witnesses who seemed to be wilting in recent years who now seem galvanised by this Russian situation.
John Cedars always comes across as kindly toward the individual JW but when it comes to the organization itself, he tells it like it is.
Some of the former JW couples I've seen on Youtube come across a bit smug and full of themselves at times but to me, all of them have something to say. I'd rather simply not watch them than to live in a world where they had to censor themselves to suit everyone's sensibilities.
In terms of the JW's in Russia, I don't wish them any harm nor do I think they should be banned. All I want from the Watchtower Org. is a public admittance that they are not directly guided by God and an apology for how their human error and shortsightedness has damaged countless number of individuals and families.
I personally don't think the JWs in Russia should be banned. Banning something just makes it more sought after. I remember when Eminem was new on the scene, here in the UK there were TV documentaries, media reports etc all saying how terrible and dangerous his lyrics were... his record sales sky-rocketed.
Banning something isnt the way. The borg work that way, banning certain websites, banning certain family members. If someone wants to believe an invisible Jesus chose a the Watchtower in 1919 as his org even though it was pretty much an entirely new religion then that's their business. We all know the JWs love the idea that they're being persecuted, why give them the satisfaction?
That is one thing Wt has got over apostates. They have a united front. It may be faked, forced or phoney but Wt is united. Apostates are just to fragmented.
JWs would love your response Joe - even though it is patently incorrect.
JW organization can be compared to control-freak parents who say to their kids, "If you obey me, you're my kids, but if you don't, you're no longer my kids." So they kick out the kids who do not fully obey, and then they declare about their remaining children: "Look how wonderful my children are. So loyal and steadfast." They "disappear" their other kids. What a distasteful kind of unity - which would better be called fear-induced obedience.
On the topic of disagreeing, you talk about it as if it is something bad. Where is it written that people who goose-step to their leaders' commands are a product for the betterment of humankind? It is often quite the opposite.
It is people who are not afraid to use critical thinking, to draw their own conclusions, who question and who do research who have the most to offer humankind.
I like that exJWs on Youtube are free to disagree. Long may that continue. Even so, Marc and Cora's repeated sniping about John Cedars is tiresome. It is as if they cannot leave well alone and believe they have to repeat themselves lest others be "taken in" by John. It has dismal shades of JW organization's need to frequently bad-mouth apostates - just in case anyone didn't get how bad they were.
On the topic of John's personality: He's flawed probably egotistical, at times easily offended by what people say about him and takes obvious pride in his video productions. I do not know how to make videos but I too am flawed and assess myself as egotistical and at times offended by what people say. Big deal!
But, like John Cedars, I'm also much more than that. If we are upfront about ourselves, we share a common humanity and, because of our experiences in JW organization, are likely pretty sensitive to criticism and rejection. But it doesn't make any of us bad people.
BTW, John Cedars shared company with a huge number of other people who felt that inaction by the "owner" of Crisis of Conscience justified illegal downloads. Those who know me will know that I disagreed with John's actions - but I understand what led to it. To date, the "owner" of the copyright of Crisis of Conscience has still not made the book available to the public for purchase. I should imagine JWs would be delighted about that stagnation.
Jambon, it's what people do.
Has it occurred to you that your post criticising M&C is essentially in the same vein as what you don't like them doing to LE/JC?
Taking the moral high road is difficult and most definitely NOT something we were taught or encouraged to do when we were in the cult.
Old habits die hard. Take it from one who knows all too well.
Enlightened discourse and debate frequently involves attacking what we believe to be flaws in the ARGUMENT, but it need not, and indeed should not, involve personal attacks on the PERSON.
The former is healthy and can lead to a better and deeper, more balanced understanding of the issues.
The latter always descends in to mindless tribalism.
Been there, done that
I can't speak for the youtubers but I know some of us are skeptical of Cedars because of his involvement in AAWA and their claim that he still supports their organization.
I will never forgive AAWA for what they did to many of us.