How to argue with a JW who says the org never said the end in 75

by dogon 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OrphanCrow

    I was there. In the pre-75 JW world.

    I clearly remember reading these 3 Awake! magazines - Oct 8, 1966; January 8, 1968; October 8, 1968:

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    aka "everything you wanted to know about 1975 but were afraid to ask"

    aka "blueprint for f***ing up a whole lot of people's lives"

    The Awake articles were only one of the many propaganda venues that the WTS used to ramp up the fear level

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    1975 is meaningless to any dubs born since that date. it was all tied in with a creative day being 7000 years long--and the one bullsh1t non-fact was used to prove the other--and vice versa. best let any active dub who wants to live in denial stay alseep in their own world of illusion.

    it was the unprovable 7000 year-day " fact" that got me really thinking long and hard about the watchtower--and i was well out of it before 1975.

  • Vanderhoven7

    I would ask:

    1. How well do you know your organizations history regarding 1975?

    2. Do you know why were JWs looking forward to 1975?

    "One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows , neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end." -The Watchtower, August 15, 1968 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

    3. Do you know why JWs were commended for selling their homes in the early 70s?

    Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?

    4. Do you know why JWs were told that was foolish, even dangerous to plan for a career in 1968/69?

    1969 "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling.. True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?" {AWAKE May 22 1969 15}}

    5. Do you know who was to blame for all the hype over 1975?

    "If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." The Watchtower, July 15, 1976,

  • Finkelstein

    What be more alarming today's JWS regarding 1975 is the fact that directors of WTS. ie. Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr used the 7000 dating of mankinds existence privoius , once at the tunn of the century by C Russell and again in 1941 , so WTS. used it three times in total.

  • Vanderhoven7

    add to question 2

    The Watchtower, August 15, 1968 p.499 “Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?”

    Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975?, and the long-looked-for-thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly....It may involve only a difference in of weeks or months, not years.

  • slimboyfat

    I'd suggest that the sort of JW who says 1975 never happened may be the sort of JW it's not worth arguing with. It's not like decades ago when ignorance on this topic, as many other topics, may have been excusable. Anyone who wants to find out what happened around 1975 can do so easily in a few clicks. If they insist nothing happened around 1975 they are either wilfully ignorant or lying. And you can't force anyone to learn or accept something they don't want to.

    I have a JW who from time to time tries to convince me evolution is false. I guess I've kind of humoured it over the years. He points to new magazines on design or whatever. But what I should really say to him, because he's obviously never read a book on evolution, is simply that he should read an actual book on he subject then we could have a meaningful conversation. For perhaps 99% of people who say they don't accept evolution, the only information that comment conveys about the person is that they've never actually read a book that explains the subject rather than distorts it. They have nothing meaningful to say about the subject itself because they don't really know anything about it.

    Same thing when a JW says "I've never heard that 1975 was a thing". They somehow think this means "because I don't know about 1975 being a thing, therefore 1975 wasn't a thing". This is obviously specious logic. It's just as bad as saying "I find evolution incredible therefore it can't be true". These sorts of statements say nothing about the topic in itself and everything about the wilful ignorance of the person making the statement.

  • TD
    I'd suggest that the sort of JW who says 1975 never happened may be the sort of JW it's not worth arguing with.

    I don't disagree SBF, but can't help thinking about the first edition of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended :-)

  • Tantalon

    I am 58 years old so I well remember the hype and the fear I felt as a naïve impressionable teen during all of this hype and doom saying. I was frankly terrified because I knew in my heart I was not good enough; as a born in I never "felt " it. Always a doubter.

    Enter my brother, an ex-bethelite, now pioneer (married, no children, dirt poor, no assets, so sad). He was five years old in 75 but assures me that my memory is defective and we all deluded ourselves, no fault of the "Mother".

    I am not gonna argue the point at all, there are none so blind as those who choose to be and I see no point in alerting my very aged parents to the fact that I am "apostate" not just a long time fader. That would be unkind.

  • Crabby

    Never argue with a JW as arguing with schizzos is pointless. What you can do is ask them if they believe that it is morally acceptable to pray for 7.4 billion people to die. Then tell them that you are not asking if they believe in the false prophesy, tell them they are asking them personally if they feel that praying for all the worlds newborn children and mothers to die is morally acceptable. They have two choices here, answer no and leave the religion, or answer yes and demonstrate the devils intent and ignorance.

  • Dunedain

    I knew an "anointed" brother from my old congregation who tried to say that the Org NEVER said anything about 1975.

    Needless to say, he was not some old timer in the org since the 40's or 50's, and lived through it as an anointed pillar in the "truth".

    Nope, lol, he started studying in the 80's, and was baptized in the 80's too, as a 30 year old man. He was a clown, lol.

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