How to argue with a JW who says the org never said the end in 75

by dogon 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • disillusioned 2
    disillusioned 2

    I would just go to my bookcase and take down the 1968 bound volume, turn to the page that asks "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975" and put it on table in front of them. After initial shock though they will try to worm their way out of it. This has happened many times.

  • Splash

    And then as 1975 began, so did the back pedalling.

    Audio lecture given in early 1975 by Frederick W. Franz, then Vice President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, California.

    18:20 "But the big questions is this "Is this year, 1975, the final year, the last year for the ingathering of the other sheep? Now we're all interested in that.... We found that just like you here, [other brothers] also were interested in this current year of 1975. What does it signify for Gods people? Is it the year, the final year, the last year for the ingathering of the other sheep before the great tribulation breaks and reaches its climax in the battle of the great day of God the almighty at Armageddon? Is this the year which will lead right on into the establishment of the day of the Lord Jesus Christ? Well, how are we to view this year?..."

    38:42 "We know it's a critical year, we know we're near something, but we're not saying."

    42:54 "Now our enquiries around the world of the brothers as to what they're expecting to occur between now and the end of 1975 has revealed that some are very sanguine about matters in the near future, and they're expecting the great tribulation to occur, and the destruction of Babylon the Great, and the annihilation of all the political systems of this world, and then the binding Satan and his demons and their abyssing, to occur before this year is ended, this year 1975."

    44:39 "But, in view of what the scriptures inform us, are we warranted in expecting so much to occur by September the 5th 1975? Does September the 5th at sundown when the year 1976 will begin, lunar time, mean that it is time for the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ to begin? And accordingly, does it mean that we are 6,000 years advanced into the 7th day, the 7th creative day of Jehovah God, his rest day, his Sabbath day? Does it mean that? No!"


    Fred Franz - Assembly Speech in Los Angeles, Feb 1975

    8:40 "Now that's all it says about 1900 and 75" (crowd laughs and claps)

    "And that's all we can say to John Dark, the religious editor of the Los Angeles Times, or anybody else out there in the world who wants to know what we have published regarding this critical year. We know it's a critical year, we know we're near something! But we're not saying" (Crowd roars with laughter and claps)


    Finally a 21st Century Governing Body member, Stephen Lett, feels it's safe to now admit that they got 1975 wrong! Apparently the Faithful and Discreet Slave are like an overly sensitive smoke detector.

    It's revealing how Lett describes the Faithful Slave as 'they' and 'them' instead of 'me' and 'us'.

    00:13 "Let's just talk about some of this documented evidence that this is certainly the case. Now it's true that the Faithful Slave, at times, has had wrong expectations throughout the decades..."

    00:50 "See, sometimes they've had wrong expectations, for example 1975. Many responsible ones at headquarters, they thought maybe, maybe Jehovah would bring the 1,000 year reign to begin in that year, but of course it didn't happen did it. And we're happy that literally millions have come into the Truth since 1975.... It doesn't mean the Faithful Slave is unfaithful."

    1:50 "So at times the Faithful Slave maybe's been like that smoke alarm, although they've learned from their mistakes that you really can't be specific about Jehovah's day."

  • tiki

    Any of us who were young then and forfeited education, career, etc....can tell you it really dud occur. People racked up debt that they figured they'd never have to pay off....sisters pregnant or with little kids we're in a panic frenzy....some kids married really young to have sex in case they would die and be resurrected and sexless. Oh really did happen....

  • pale.emperor

    1:50 "So at times the Faithful Slave maybe's been like that smoke alarm, although they've learned from their mistakes that you really can't be specific about Jehovah's day."

    And like an overly sensitive smoke alarm, it's a sign that the batteries are running out and need replacing. Or better still, replace the whole smoke alarm.

  • zeb

    I just checked Google under .. stay alive 'til '75.

    Its all there.

  • stuckinarut2

    "Stay alive till 75"

    What about the infamous late 60's awake about not pursuing education because the end would be here before a university course would be completed.?

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    JWs will exploit any and every frivolous technicality to defend the org. On a Y!A question about JW false predictions, I saw a JW respond by saying that JWs never made any false predictions - that such predictions were make by Bible Student groups before the group named Jehovah's Witnesses came into existence in 1931. Yes, they will stoop that low.

    When mentioning the 1975 issue, it's best avoid saying or implying that the org explicitly predicted the end in 1975. Instead, it would be better to say that the org. "implied" or "insinuated" through innuendo that the end would come in 1975. Such a claim would be more difficult for a JW to weasel out of.

    Keep in mind too, what the org says about Satan's words to Eve at Genesis 3. This could prove very helpful for exposing the hypocrisy of the "the org never explicitly said so" defence argument employed by JWs. How so? Well Satan never explicitly told Eve that God was a selfish ruler withholding good from humans and that humans are better off ruling themselves, did he? Yet the org. reads those insinuations into Satan's words and charges him with being just as guilty as if he had explicitly said it! So since the org. judges others for what they do not explicitly say but insinuate; then it is only fair that others also judge the org. for what it does not explicitly say but clearly insinuates. They clearly insinuated that the end would come in 1975!

  • DesirousOfChange

    Remember, well over 50% of current JWs were not members in 1975. Many not even born yet in 1975. They have never been exposed to what was said about 1975 so they cannot remember the "hype" and frenzy that it was for JWs then. Instead, they have blatantly been told that the whole issues has been exaggerated by apostates and that some JWs back then were "overly optimistic" about what was said.


    They've been putting the spin on this now for 40 years.

  • ShirleyW

    May 1974 Kingdom Ministry

    on the 3rd page it mentions how brothers are selling there homes, and says pioneering is a fine way to spend the short time left. I like to share this and a few other quotes from the magazines that say the same thing. I like to mess with the folks with the carts with this and give the specific magazine it's mentioned in the date and page and urge them to look it up after I read the quotes to them. I doubt they bother to look it up though

  • sir82

    Apparently the Faithful and Discreet Slave are like an overly sensitive smoke detector.

    Of what value is a smoke detector that only beeps when there is no smoke? If every sound it produces is a false alarm....well, isn't it time to get a new detector?

    1914, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, [one generation from 1914].....

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