Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  MeanMrMustard

  Bottom line: the number of people willing to fund the organization, for the long term, is most likely a small, aging percentage of the declared WT number of JWs. And it's a worldwide figure, with some countries able to produce more funds than others.

  So what's that percentage? Very hard to tell. We hold our finger to the wind as exJWs. We see people come and go. know that every single young person, save one, that I grew up with has left. I've seen elders just give up and leave - which was probably a brewing PIMO situation for a while.

  So what's that number? If it's 20%, then the organization will collapse to 20% of its size. Doesn't matter what they do with the doctrine.

  I have a feeling the actual number of true, long term funders and believers is a lot lower.

  This is why they feared the internet so much. Too late. It's going to shrink, far. It's just a matter of time. And as time lurches forward, and this "old system" sticks around longer, the percentage willing to fund the org will decrease. The old guard will die, replaced with ever dissolutioned younger folk itching to get out in the real world.

  Time and pressure... time and pressure.
• 

  Beth Sarim

  ""Do the math""😏

  BTW,, Happy New Years!!!
• 

  hoser

  Who’s got the money to donate nowadays?

  Just living is expensive and add to the problem is uneducated low paid Jehovah’s Witnesses that aren’t allowed to work overtime to get ahead. There ain’t much left over at the end of the month.
• 

  Vidiot

  So…

  …not only should we be super-skeptical about the Org’s self-reported stats…

  …but…

  …in the long run, the stats don’t really matter, because they no longer have any significant impact on the Org’s ability to function.
• 

  slimboyfat

  The point about the census data is that they show Watchtower figures give a conservative estimate of their membership whereas other groups such as the Mormons grossly inflate their numbers. It seems that the Mormon church counts practically everybody who was ever baptised as a member regardless of whether they still have any contact with the church. That’s why you end up with the church claiming over a million members in Brazil but less than 300,000 describing themselves as Mormons in the census. For JWs it’s the other way round because their own count is far fewer than the census figure.

  On one hand Watchtower is at a disadvantage financially because they discourage members from getting an education and a career and they don’t collect a tithe. On the other hand they discourage members from having children and instruct them to cut off contact with children if they leave the religion. As a result a considerable number of JWs leave their assets to the organisation in their will. Former Bethelites have confirmed the organisation receives a lot of money this way, especially now the baby boomer generation is dying off who accumulated property assets during the postwar period. Watchtower is not as rich as the Mormon church but they are probably comfortable within their current needs.
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  "Current needs" - yes, possibly. But long term depends on the size of the strong, consistent "core" believers - whatever that is. My guess is that it's small, and getting smaller.

  That which can't be sustained, won't.

  Eventually, the WT will join the ranks of the Bible Students - obscure fringe. And then they will have to deal with the fallout of that. (The org was supposed to be THE org)
• 

  ThomasMore

  “Current needs” is operational needs for cash for CSA settlements and paying the bills.

  WTC has yet to pay their share (or any share) of the restitution called for by the Australia Royal Commission’s for victims of child abuse. They have prioritized where the cash on hand will go and it isn’t the “scheme” designed for children who were victimized by members of the faith. Speculation is that they will make it impossible for the government to glean their assets so at present they can thumb their nose at them without concern. They drive over the cliff in Aussieland before they get pulled over.

  Meanwhile, WTC is selling off assets in foreign lands and sending the proceeds back to Headquarters in the USA. This has the attention of those governments who take a dim view of draining assets from their citizenry. The consequences for doing this are severe yet WTC put financial mechanisms in place JUST for this purpose. No one in their right mind would do something so reckless unless they were desperate.

  We could go on and on but logic tells us that they are hurting financially and are cutting corners with no hesitation to prevent a financial crash. This will not end well for them.
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  "This will not end well for them."

  Yeah, and I don't argue any of that. Concerning CSA scandals : victims should pursue just compensation to the fullest extent possible. However, if there are 8.5 to 9 million "core" JWs, these CSA scandals wouldn't be any cause for concern. Sure, there might be some judgements, but it's easy to spin that to the core believers that it was an unjust outcome from a Satanic world, and it could be used to rally more donations.

  But the issue is the "core" isn't there, or is rapidly shrinking, or probably both. They can rally around assets for a while, change the way they do business a bit, and go forward without the CSA problem. But the CSA issue is a drop in the bucket to the shrinking core beliver count.

  They are losing on the ideological front line. And that's the way it should be. The org shouldn't go out with bang (like with some huge governmental attack - the likes of which would reinvigorate the core belivers). It will shrink with time as more people come to realize it's a cult.

  They may shift the shunning doctrine, allow beards. Hell, maybe bring back birthdays and Christmas. But the only way to halt shrinkage is to have a core set of people that actually believe.
• 

  Vidiot

  The number of core WT believers is essentially irrelevant, if the WT corporation is unable to stay financially solvent…

  …because if the WT corporation is unable to stay financially solvent, the WT religion cannot function…

  …and if the WT religion cannot function, the core believers have nothing left to believe in, regardless of how many there are…

  …not that there actually seem to be that many, if the number of KH sales and consolidations, sporadic in-person attendance, and zoom-in-tune-outs are any indication.
• 

  Elena

  I suspect there are still lots of older ones donating their pensions but not many younger ones will. It doesn’t look good for the future. A combination of cost of living crisis and younger ones don’t believe the lies passed down.