The "Trinity" is not Biblical.

by Revealed 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Revealed

    Double Talk. Actually, Triple-Talk, devoid of Christ!

  • EverApostate
    But then you don't know who Christ is...

    Oh really, how many times he responded and appeared for your fervent prayers and conversed with you ?

  • Revealed

    Not a one. Your point?

    That he doesn't exist?

  • EverApostate
    That he doesn't exist?

    He doesnt Exist, unfortunately. Even his history in the Bible is highly suspicious that he ever Existed at all

  • Revealed

    How many times has President Biden visited you?

  • EverApostate

    Not once, but I see him on the TV everyday and he responds to peoples Questions very tangibly

  • Revealed

    AD 90�125

    Clement of Rome

    One of the most important apostolic documents, Clement of Rome�s letter to the Corinthian church is generally considered to be the earliest extra-New Testament Christian writing. Clement was the leading elder in the church at Rome and wrote Corinthians about AD 95 to help end a dispute between the church members and elders at Corinth.

    Although Corinthians is largely doctrinal and moral in nature, it contains at least one important historical reference to Jesus and earliest Christianity:

    The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their first-fruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe.3

    In this passage, Clement of Rome claims several facts. (1) The gospel or good news of the Kingdom of God was the major Christian message. (2) This gospel had been given to the apostles by Jesus himself even as it came from God. (3) Jesus� resurrection provided the assurance of the truthfulness of these teachings. (4) With the additional certainty of Scripture, the apostles spread the gospel. (5) Wherever the gospel was preached and local congregations were started, leaders were chosen to minister to the believers.

    This certification of a chain of authority from God to Jesus to the apostles to the early Christian elders is interesting not only in that it was the basis for early doctrinal proclamation and church organization. Additionally, Clement of Rome anchors this authority in the belief that Jesus was raised from the dead and in the Scripture. A miraculous event in history was thus taken as the basic sign of authority behind the preaching of the earliest Christian message.

    AD 110�115


    As bishop of Antioch and a leader in the early church, Ignatius was condemned to death in Rome. On the way to his execution he addressed seven letters to six churches and one individual (Polycarp). These letters are early witnesses to Christian doctrine and to early church hierarchy, being written about AD 110�115. They also contain several historical references to Jesus. In his epistle to the Trallians, Ignatius states:

    Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him.4

    In this portion, Ignatius affirms several facts concerning Jesus. (1) He was of the lineage of David and (2) born of Mary. (3) As such, he really lived, ate and drank on the earth. (4) Jesus was crucified and died at the hands of Pontius Pilate. (5) Afterward God raised him from the dead, (6) as an example of the believer�s resurrection. Again we perceive how the resurrection was the chief sign for believers, in this case that they would be raised from the dead like Jesus.

    In his epistle to the Smyrneans, Ignatius refers twice to the historical Jesus. In the first instance, he asserts concerning Jesus:

    He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we�that is, of His most blessed passion); that He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection.5 (Emphasis added by the editor.)

    Ignatius again affirms (7) that Jesus was physically of the lineage of David, adding (8) that he was also the Son of God as shown by the virgin birth. (9) Jesus was baptized by John, (10) later being nailed (crucified) under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch. (11)Afterward, Jesus was raised from the dead.

    In a second reference in Smyrneans, Ignatius concentrates on Jesus� resurrection:

    For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, Lay hold and handle me, and see that I am not a demon without a body. And straitway they touched him and they believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He [both] ate with them and drank with them.6 (Emphasis added by the editor.)

    Speaking of the resurrection, Ignatius affirms that Jesus (12) was raised in the flesh. (13) Afterward he appeared to Peter and the disciples and told them to touch his physical body, which they did. (14) Jesus then ate and drank with them after his resurrection. (15) In a statement reminiscent of Lucian, Ignatius also relates that upon believing, the disciples despised death.

    A last reference which Ignatius makes concerning the historical Jesus is found in his epistle to the Magnesians:

    Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope.7

    Here Ignatius assures his readers that they can be certainly persuaded of the facticity of Jesus� (16) birth, (17) death and (18) resurrection, the last two having occurred while Pontius Pilate was governor.

    As in other references, Ignatius attempts to place such events firmly in the realm of history. His purpose, at least partially, is to provide an answer to the threat of Gnosticism, which often denied physical interpretations of some of these events.

    AD 125


    One of the early apologists to begin answering claims raised against Christianity, Quadratus wrote his apology to Emperor Hadrian about AD 125. Unfortunately, this work is presently known only from one statement preserved by Eusebius in the fourth century.

    Eusebius relates that Quadratus wrote his apology in order to answer malicious claims meant to harass Christians. It is stated that this defense was both sound in doctrine and revealed Quadratus� knowledge of the situation. Then Eusebius quotes a sentence from Quadratus� apology:

    The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived to our own times.

    This brief quotation from Quadratus� apology reports several important items concerning Jesus� miracles. (1) The facticity of Jesus� miracles could be checked by interested persons, since they were done publicly. With regard to the actual types of miracles, (2) some were healed and (3) some were raised from the dead. (4) There were eyewitnesses of these miracles at the time they occurred. (5) Many of those healed or raised were still alive when Jesus �left the earth� and some were reportedly still alive in Quadratus� own time.

    AD 126�155


    The epistle of Barnabas (sometimes referred to as Pseudo-Barnabas) has explicit antilegalistic overtones and expresses opposition to Judaism. Its purpose is to show that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament law, but in doing so it often resorts to allegorical interpretations. Dates for this writing have varied widely, often from the late first century to the mid-second century. A commonly accepted date is AD 130�138.

    In one major passage, Barnabas relates several facts concerning the life of Jesus:

    He must needs be manifested in the flesh. . . . He preached teaching Israel and performing so many wonders and miracles, and He loved them exceedingly. . . . He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel. . . . But He Himself desired so to suffer; for it was necessary for Him to suffer on a tree.

    From this portion we note (1) that Jesus became a man. He (2) preached and taught Israel, (3) performed miracles and (4) expressed love for the people. (5) Jesus chose his apostles (6) to proclaim the message of the gospel. (7) It was necessary for Jesus to suffer on a tree (crucifixion).

    AD 150

    Justin Martyr

    With the work of Justin Martyr, early Christian scholarship entered a new dimension. There is a marked difference between the characteristically devotional, doctrinal and practical exhortations of the apostolic writings and the apologetic works of Justin. These writings reflect his personal philosophical pilgrimage and his own polemic interests, which led to his reputation as the major Christian apologist of the second century. Included in his works are a number of historical references to Jesus.

    In his First Apology, written soon after AD 150 and addressed chiefly to Emperor Antoninus Pius, Justin Martyr refers to various aspects of the life of Jesus. Referring to Jesus� birth, it is noted that he was born of a virgin, while his physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse.10 Later, after mentioning the location of Jesus� birth in the town of Bethlehem, Justin explains:

    Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea.11

    These two references state several items surrounding Jesus� birth. (1) He was born of a virgin, (2) while he was a physical descendant of Jesse, of the tribe of Judah. (3) The village of Bethlehem was his birthplace, (4) which was located thirty-five stadia (approximately five miles) from Jerusalem. (5) The location and fact of Jesus� birth could be verified by consulting the records of Cyrenius, the first procurator of Judea.

    Justin Martyr also refers to Jesus� public ministry and to the official documentation of his message. Earlier Justin�s reference to the Acts of Pontius Pilate was discussed,12 where it is asserted that Jesus� miracles such as his healing of diseases and raising the dead could be evidenced from Pilate�s report.13 Furthermore, in answer to the question as to whether Jesus did his miracles by magic, Justin answered in the negative, pointing to Jesus� fulfillment of prophecy as a vindication of his claims.14 From these texts we note (6) that Jesus did miracles which were believed to be referenced in Pilate�s report. (7) Fulfilled messianic prophecy was also taken as a further validation of his claims.

    Justin also referred frequently to Jesus� death by crucifixion. On one occasion he spoke of Jesus as �Him who was crucified in Judea.�15 In a second reference to the so-called Acts of Pontius Pilate, he declares that Jesus was nailed to the cross through his hands and feet, and that some of those present cast lots for his clothing.16 In a more extended reference to Jesus� death and resurrection, Justin Martyr declares:

    Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles.17

    In these three references Justin reports (8) that Jesus was nailed to the cross through his hands and feet and (9) was crucified (10) while his garments were taken from him. (11) His friends denied and forsook him. (12) Later, Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to his followers, (13) teaching them concerning the prophecies which he fulfilled. (14) After Jesus ascended to heaven, (15) those who believed in him went out preaching to all men and (16) were called apostles.

    In another work, Dialogue with Trypho, Justin Martyr writes specifically for Jews, in order to convince them that Jesus is the Messiah. Here we also find several historical references to Jesus. For instance, Justin asserts:

    For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land.18

    Here it is pointed out (17) that Arabian Magi visited Jesus at his birth and worshipped him, after (18) first stopping to see Herod, the ruler of the Jews.

    Later, speaking of Jesus� crucifixion, Justin writes:

    For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet; and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot.19

    Here Justin explicitly records several more events. He asserts (19) that Jesus was crucified, being nailed through both his hands and feet. (20) Again we find a reference to gambling for Jesus� clothes by those who crucified him, with each person keeping the items which he had won.

    Following Jesus� death by crucifixion, the Gospel of Matthew reports that the Jews spread the story that the disciples came and stole his dead body (Matt. 28:11-15). Justin explains that this story was still being proclaimed elsewhere by the Jews:

    Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead . . . yet you not only have not repented, after you learned that he rose from the dead, but, as I said before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim that a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified, but his disciples stole him by night from the tomb, where he was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that he had risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.20

    This interesting portion reports (21) that Jesus predicted that he would rise ahead of time,21 and (22) exhorted the Jews to repent. (23) Even after Jesus rose from the dead the Jews did not repent but (24) spread the story that the disciples stole Jesus� body after he was crucified, and that the disciples then lied about the resurrection. (25) The disciples also taught that Jesus afterward ascended to heaven, which at least witnesses to the early Christian belief in this occurrence.

    Lastly, Justin Martyr also witnesses to the facticity of the resurrection in another portion of Dialogue with Trypho:

    For indeed the Lord remained on the tree almost until evening, and they buried Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again.22

    Here Justin records (26) that Jesus hung on the �tree� until evening,23 (27) that he was buried at that time and (28) that he rose from the dead the third day afterward.

    Justin Martyr records many other events from the life of Jesus, but often he reports that his data was gleaned from the Scripture.24 These references here will suffice to provide numerous examples of Justin�s interest in Jesus� actual life on earth.

  • EverApostate

    You need not write Paragraphs to prove that President Biden Exists today

    But why do you need to write Paragraphs to prove that Jesus Exists today. Your own advocacy for Jesus proves that he doesnt Exist

  • Revealed

    Heh! To each his own fantasy!

  • JoenB75

    Jesus does not exist because of the Bible. The Bible is second. Jesus is the spiritual reality

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