What's the difference between a Christian and a JW?

by nowwhat? 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @jws: "But do they believe Jesus was our redeemer. Yes. They believe in the new testament. They are Christians."

    Redeemer for who? The anointed, only. In Watchtower terms, the literal 144,000. The rest of the Witnesses are not part of this New Covenant with Christ as their redeemer. And the Bible is not uncertain to what happens to those outside of this covenant. "There is no hope". Check out Ephesians 2:12.

    As for Witnesses believing in the New Testament, they believe it's written only for 144,000 people. All of the hope offered to Christians, such as Romans 4:5, Romans 5:1, Romans 3, Romans 10 and especially Ephesians 2:8,9 which says "By this underserved kindness you have been saved through faith... No, it is not the result of works..." is openly withheld from regular Witnesses who must earn their salvation through works (consider the Kingdom Ministry of June 2012 which cites one of the reasons for preaching is to "ensure your own salvation").

    Curiously, Watchtower picks and chooses which verses within the New Testament to apply to the two classes of Witnesses. A verse like John 3:3 where Jesus tells Nicodemus that unless "anyone is born again", he won't be able to see the kingdom of God. This is for the 144,000 only. Yet, thirteen verses later, the "for God loved the world so much that he gave..." scripture is applied for all Witnesses. And there are NO distinctions between the verses of who Jesus is addressing.

    There is no questioning that Watchtower is not Christian and is, in fact, antichrist. Anti in Greek doesn't alway mean "against", but it can also mean "instead of". The Organization acts INSTEAD of Christ for those attempting to be Christian. @Jerryh did a great analysis of this in a comment on @ConcernedParent's thread recently. They wrote:

    "Anti in English means opposed or against but here is ἀντὶ in the New Testament.

    ὀφθαλμὸν ἀντὶ ὀφθαλμοῦ καὶ ὀδόντα ἀντὶ ὀδόντος.

    (Mat 5:38) eye for eye and tooth for tooth

    ἀντὶ τοῦ λέγειν ὑμᾶς

    (Jam 4:15) Instead you ought to say

    ἀντὶ in the NT often means substitute and that is what the GB claims for themselves, alternative mediators between God and humanity. Jesus is their mediator and they are the mediator for the rest of us."

  • humbled


    The Quakers are a fairly evolved group. I can see you enjoying their non doctrinaire association.I heard that a rabbi once said “Some of my best Jews are ‘Friends’”.

    About the Catholic Workers: they go back only to 1933. They are pacifists. You apparently didn’t read the link l posted. I checked it to see if my remembrance of them matched the wiki page.

    Do they actually refuse to fight, or just talk about it?

    You ask if the Workers actually refuse to fight or just talk about it? They had been a haven for active war resistance from the beginning. They are more vocal and active than JWs if fewer in number. They have helped provide a steady presence at the WHINSEC (formerly School of the Americas) , crashing nuclear missle silos, etc. they have at times risked sanctioning by the Catholic Church. They often live in community, allow for individual conscience, feed and shelter the poor, work for social justice. Live in poverty for the most part. And they are sometimes fractious as will happen when individual conscience is respected 😕. As you would know, SBF.

    The 8 million robots stand in stark contrast. In my ignorant innocence l was invited by a local Peace Panel around the time of the Second Iraq war to represent Jehovah’s Witnesses tradition of peace ( l was POMO thoroughly)

    And all hell broke loose.

    Nathan Natas and others of this forum flagged a news article that announced the forum of local religious groups meeting to present their religious traditions. The moderator included my name. ( l didn’t receive a paper, neither had a television out in our rural home) ExJWs bombed the organizers with emails stating that no legitimate JW woman would/could represent the Organization. The mod called me in distress over what this could mean. I was absolutely bewildered. I called a well known Anointed brother to clarify my intention and was powerfully counseled as to the wrong l would be committing against the Organization should l do such a thing.

    I cancelled out much to the mutual chagrin of the panel and myself. My explanation as to “why” sounded hollow even to myself.

    Years later l discovered this forum had been the instrument of that confrontation.

    8 million robots. My desire to work for peace through this Organization was reduced to mechanically distributing old magazines and careful shunning of any other religions that worked for peace.

    Blighted religion. JWs are ones who are not free to even talk the walk .

  • humbled

    Post script:

    l asked that Anointed elder to explain the JW “peace tradition”, to replace me on the panel. Of course he refused: He would have been seated along side Christendom.

    We all know now how restricted speech really is in the Org. And what we might do is also restricted. Our palid words and deeds must wait and wait and wait for a war to break out for our neutrality to “shine”. The energy of riotous and exuberant unconditional love isn’t there.

    For a lark look at this Watchtower study from a few years ago. What other Christian religion is this hypocritical?

    Do You Have “Freeness of Speech”?
    OVER six million people in 235 lands enjoy what the Bible calls “freeness of speech.” The expression occurs 16 times in the text of the Christian Greek Scriptures of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. (Philippians 1:20; 1 Timothy 3:13; Hebrews 3:6; 1 John 3:21) What does “freeness of speech” involve? What helps us to acquire it? In what areas of communication does this freedom allow us to make unhindered expressions?
  • shepherdless

    I just want to add something to what humbled has stated.

    It seems to me that JWs and some ex-JWs do have this view that Watchtower is the only anti-war Christian religion. Or they reluctantly admit that some other Christian religions such as SDA, Christadelphian, etc have pretty similar internal stances.

    My Catholic ancestors were amongst those that successfully blocked conscription in Australia, during WW1. There were two referenda to bring in conscription in Australia in WW1. Both failed, and a large part of that was that Catholics, led by the leading bishop in Australia (Archbishop Daniel Mannix), who not just campaigned against it from the pulpit, not just marched in the street against it, but attended and spoke at rallies of up to 100,000 people, to block conscription.

    They were not the only ones. But they actually went out and did something, and were successful in blocking the law. They didn't just sanctimoniously talk about it being wrong.

  • cofty

    SBF - Pacifism is moral cowardice. Sometimes it is necessary to fight and kill for peace.

    Back to the topic - The difference between xtians and JWs is soteriology. JWs believe Jesus died for the sins of Adam; xtians believe Jesus died for their own personal sins. The difference is massive.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    One big difference between JWs and other Christian groups is the WT anti-transfusion policy.

    I can't think of another Christian sect that refuses transfusions en masse, as official policy.

  • Jerryh

    John 3:16 relates a general concept, an abstraction as does 1 John 2:2.

    John 3:16 must become Galatians 2:20 to become a Christian.

    I am impaled along with Christ. It is no longer I that live, but it is Christ that is living in union with me. Indeed, the life that I now live in flesh I live by the faith that is toward the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me.

    As much as I dislike the WBTS I have to admit the "anointed" fit the concept but there is no such thing

    as an un-anointed Christian. There are no un-forgiven Christians or un-justified, un-regenerated, un-sealed

    un-washed etc. Paul's advise to the Romans was "let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind"

    The Imago Dei defies definition but surely contains the ability to choose.

    He also advised the Corinthians to "keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved.

    You can definitely say it is a pre req.

    Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple. Rule number 1

    straight forward out of the mouth of the judge. If you are an active JW please pore over Romans 6: 6-7

    to see how the org. misapplies scripture directly related to this and see if you have courage to point it out.

    one more reference

    For you died, and your life has been hidden with the Christ in union with God Col 3:3

    Mr. cofty is correct as usual

    Back to the topic - The difference between xtians and JWs is soteriology. JWs believe Jesus died for the sins of Adam; xtians believe Jesus died for their own personal sins. The difference is massive.

    soteriology is kinda like the main idea, no?

    *** w83 8/15 p. 23 par. 14 United Fruit Bearers ***

    While the “other sheep” are not branches of the Abrahamic-covenant “olive tree” or of “the true vine,” Christ Jesus, they must prove themselves to be Christ’s disciples. Like all the anointed Christian “branches,” they must “keep bearing much fruit.” This they do by producing Christlike qualities of the new personality, including “the fruitage of the spirit.” (Galatians 5:22, 23; Matthew 28:19, 20; Colossians 3:5-14) But to be really fruitful they give active expression to such qualities by sharing in the work of preaching “this good news.” (Matthew 24:14) Just as the anointed “branches” of the “true vine” must remain in union with Christ, the “other sheep” must remain in close union with “the faithful and discreet slave,” Christ’s anointed “brothers.” Only thus can they hope to ‘inherit the Kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world.’—Matthew 25:31-40.

    see rule number 1

  • slimboyfat

    Humbled this is very interesting. I will send you a massage.

  • cofty
    Humbled this is very interesting. I will send you a massage - SBF

    Lucky you!

  • jws

    Wake me up before you Jo-Ho and others, you're getting into the minutia of arguments that differ between religions.

    Some might say belief in the rapture is a MAJOR difference between one brand of Christianity and another. Maybe the transmutation of Christ is another.

    Yes, each brand of Christianity has it's own interpretation and it's own beliefs that are unique. There's a reason Methodists don't call themselves Baptists. And on and on.

    But unless you're going to define the ONE TRUE version of Christianity and which specific sect aligns to it perfectly, then admit that they're all in the Christianity sandbox and that they're all Christians. This debate sounds like the "no true scotsman fallacy".

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