Is the Watchtower organisation facing the biggest crisis of its history?

by slimboyfat 91 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • slimboyfat

    I think many JWs must now just think the great crowd is simply whatever JWs are alive when Armageddon comes. The whole 1935 thing is lost on them.

    The ideology surrounding growth is another matter however. It's not just 2 Peter 3:9. At least when I was active, JWs habitually explained the fact Armageddon hadn't come yet on the need to preach and save as many people as possible first. Conversations like:

    Oh brother, who thought we'd still be sitting here in this old system in 2002?

    Not me man. But Jehovah doesn't want any to be destroyed. There are still people coming in. It's the only reason he allows this system to last a single day longer.

    I heard that conversation play out literally dozens if not hundreds of times. It was cliche. Am I the only one? What are JWs going to start saying if they post 1 or 2% declines year after year? Oh yeah, Jehovah's delaying Armageddon so he can save fewer people than he would have saved a decade ago? It doesn't work.

    That's even leaving aside the fact that the Watchtower has relentlessly pointed to growth as evidence of divine direction for decades.

    Sustained decline over years would surely have an utterly brutal impact on JW collective psychology.

  • sir82

    Sustained decline over years would surely have an utterly brutal impact on JW collective psychology.

    For thinking JWs, yes.

    I suspect that most would probably say to themselves "now it's just a matter of 'endurance' for me" or "it's a sign that the end must really be close now!"

    JWs are trained not to think. "Listen Obey and Be Blessed" is not just a song title.

    It's as i discussed in my reply to your first post. The "middle class" is being pushed out, forced to decide. They'll either think and leave, or stop thinking and double down on their efforts, ignoring the stats.

  • slimboyfat
    Yeah, better off, better educated JWs will continue to leave. Donations will decline yet further. The GB will panic and cut back more and make even wackier public comments. Prompting yet more people to leave. It could be an implosion. Especially if tension mounts between the GB and local congregations wanting to hold onto their own money. For the first time ever, ordinary JWs could begin to identify with their local congregation against the leadership. That's uncharted territory.
  • JWdaughter

    They are sitting on billions of assets, but most are not simply disposable in their current model of meetings and worship. They are telling of millions being spent every month to run operations. They only have 8 million people. How many are in 3rd world countries like India(they can't get out of country donations anymore) where they are being supported by the wealthier nations donors? How many are in western nations? How many of those have jobs which sustain families, much less the Borg? Seriously, how many people are supporting the WT anymore? You know the old republican adage about whose taxes are paying for everything? They take out the kids, those on assistance, those who pay no taxes because of income, rich people who get out of it and they figure that they are the ones supporting the whole country.

    seriously, in the Borg, they have relatively very few significant contributors and no matter how much their heart is warmed by a kid butchering and selling their pet chicken and donating the proceeds to the Borg, that AINT gonna pay the bills. They are, I believe, living off of their assets/capital. I could be wrong, but the desperate money grabs are coming from some dark place. Maybe the mafia strongmen, I don't know! But as anyone who is unemployed and starts with a nice nest egg knows, that goes fast when there is no new INCOME to replace it. They can poor mouth it only so many times before folks either wise up or can't pay it anymore. That is just reality. I think Tuxedo NY is going to be their resting place and I'm sure they actually planned to make sure that it has a ready buyer when they no longer need it and the few remaining GB members retire to their facility in Florida.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    They must see a decline in income, donations. That's why the firesale of such expensive properties.
  • TheListener

    I agree JWDaughter, the buildings sales provide income now but they won't get an infusion of cash like that again and if donation remain low they'll have to spend their principal and not live on the interest.

    That's if if if they haven't already mortgaged those buildings in Brooklyn which means selling them only clears their debts and doesn't make them any real money.

  • prologos
    TL: That's if if if they haven't already mortgaged those buildings in Brooklyn which means selling them only clears their debts and doesn't make them any real money. May be they mortgaged them in 1975 like many "friends".?
  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    ''We all must be ready to obey any instructions we receive, whether or not they seem strategic from a human standpoint or not''

    Seems to me this was mentioned at another meeting recently. Should desperate times call for desperate measures? They could imply by selling-off and giving God ''your valuable things'', selling off your house, car, jewelry and giving to the Borg. ''You no longer need your valuable things''.

  • cyberjesus

    Decline? Money attracts money. Cash is King! as long as you have money you can make more money. in the USA the 5% of people own 95% of the money in the country.... the reason? the more money you have the more money you can make.

    2 Billion dollars.. can you imagine all the money they have? they are investing that money and making even more. We dont see it because they know how to hide it.

    The biggest corporations in the USA pay a very small amount of money in taxes... why? they know how to play with it.

    there is no cash problem. they are only saving money. they are going online they dont need to print therefore they dont need their slaves anymore and they dont need the printing facilities nor the living quarters...

    we might not like it.... but they are so well off.


    I agree with your analysis, SBF.

    The org was losing believers, slowly, inevitably. The whole scam was beginning to unravel. What could be done? As I have said before, the GB ( or their handlers ) decided that they should place themselves in the lime-light; probably believing that the R&F would adore them.

    Well, that backfired. Unless some super-genius, behind the scenes, was planning to thin the flock. Perhaps the WTBTS is really just one arm of the Xian "Hydra", a tax free money maker for "THEM." If they go under, someone will take their place. If they dwindle to 1 Million zealots, easily controlled from Warwick; it's still tax free money for someone....

    The most plausible explanation seems to be pure hubris and incompetence, but.....


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