WoMD ... so where are they? (page 63)

expatbrit

Quite so Six. Except that in this case what you have is a bunch of individuals who have decided temporarily to work together to accomplish a particular objective i.e stopping freakboy raping his mother. What if after that the State said, "hey old lady, you're not allowed to decide what medical treatment to get, you have to get State provided services. Oh and by the way, you guys that saved her are far too wealthy, give most of it to the State and we'll redistribute it."?

The State's role should be limited to the absolute minimum that prevents individuals returning to our natural state i.e. killing each other. There is no such thing as community. There is no such thing as society. There are just individuals acting, sometimes together, oftentimes not, in self-interest.

Expatbrit

Simon

expat. First off, thanks for the offer to call you a prick but I'll decline.

You claim that the anyone who disagrees with what America does is left-wing / socialist / communist because "America stands for the rights and freedoms of the individual and free-market capitalism". This is all smoke and mirrors and totally inaccurate.

I am not left wing. I am not a socialist or a communist. Yet I disagree strongly with what America has done.

Are those who oppose the war all communists now? Of course not. It is just a convenient way for you to close your mind to the arguments by calling everyone "commies". And instead of being against the rights and freedoms of individuals as you claim, they are in fact the ones standing up for those rights and fighting for their protection while the government tries to take them away. Does this make the government communist? By your argument it does and yet it's hard to imagine a more right-wing rulership without using labels like "nazi" and "fascist". I think labels like these are unhelpful and wrong, just as your overuse of "communist" is. Are you insulted being called a fascist or a nazi? Maybe others are insulted being labelled communist simply because they will not stand idly by and see wrong committed.

Standing up for things being done right and for truth in no way means that your reject that ideals that the country is supposed to represent.

Do all those people who complained about Enron and other finiancial scandals by doing so reject the free-market and capitalism and therefore become communists? Of course not. They just want to see things done right. It is the big business and corrupt politicians that truly trample on people's rights and freedoms and yet you see nothing wrong with that.

I did not object to the war because I am against the rights and freedoms of individuals or the free-market but because I value those rights and do not want to see them trampled on.

This is why I say that to be left-wing is also to be anti-American. America stands for and is built upon ideals that the left refutes. To impose left-wing principles upon America would be to destroy America.

To be left-wing is simply to be left wing and not right-wing, it has nothing to do with being pro-American or anti-American except in the minds of paranoid McArthy types. Communism isn't coming to get you and it never was, the whole idea was an invention of our own governments as a way to control us.

To claim that being left-wing means one is anti-American' means that you MUST be right-wing to truly support the American ideals and yet this throws all these same ideals of freedom and rights that you claim America stands for away!

Real freedom is being able to stand up and say "This is WRONG and we want better". Being forced to comply and stay silent on issues is what happens when either extreme, both right and left, have too much power.

Simon

There are just individuals acting, sometimes together, oftentimes not, in self-interest.

And what of those individuals in power who are acting in self-interest?

Are we not allowed to work together to stop them?

Does doing this make you a communist?

Francois

You didn't think Saddam left them out with labels on them did you? Saddam isn't dead. If there's any segment of society that thinks it's immortal more than teenagers, it's tyrants. I wouldn't be surprised if Saddam hid those suckers where he could get to them after the USA left so he could get back in power with them.

You people who say there are no WMD are the same folks who would come home at night and find male underwear under your bed, the room smells that fecund apres-sex smell, your wife's lips are bruised, she's dressed in her sexiest pajamas, the cat is hiding under the refigerator - and you look around and, finding no one, say "Naw, she ain't screwing around." You say that because you WANT it to be so. If you know so damn much about it, why don't you go over there and show the allied forces where they are?

Better yet, all you people who believe there are no WMDs get together and go to California. I will paint an 18 wheeler day-glo orange and hide it somewhere in that state. And we'll see how long it takes you geniuses to find it. And while we're at it, how many of you claim there are no WMDs because you feel it adds weight to your liberal "We told you so" smugness? I think quite a bit.

[insults removed]

SixofNine

Yes Expat, but just to be over-literal, he's not really a freakboy as such, he's just a regular joe who found the money was just to damn good to stop raping our common mother. I've never seen business reign in it's distructive urges w/o extreme outside pressure. The money is better than sex to most people (that would be you and me, btw ). I guess the point being that there is more than one way to kill each other.

How the hell did this come out of a thread on wmd's? lol

Abaddon

I will paint an 18 wheeler day-glo orange and hide it somewhere in that state. And we'll see how long it takes you geniuses to find it.

Okay, so I get the satellites, the spy-planes, the Predator drones, the massive-man power, the magnetic-analomy detectors, the geiger counters, the gas spectrometers, the GPS, the CIA, the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, the local police, the state police, the heicopters, the dogs, the media campaign, the money for rewards, the spies, the fleets of Hummers, oh, the Marines...

Let me know when it's all ready, hide your truck, and we will see Francois.

That's a big 10-4.

expatbrit

Simon:

Is this where Englishman wades in and tells us to knock it on the head?...lol

First off, you are linking "anti-war" with "anti-American", not me. My post was not actually on the subject of the Iraq war, but on general political thought. I know it's a thread about Iraq, but I didn't see the point of starting a whole new thread just for this.

So, just for the record, I don't think being against the Iraq war is anti-American. I think being left-wing is anti-American. That most of the anti-war support has come from the left is simply because there is a right-wing government in power. Call me cynical, but if there had been a democrat government during this episode, I think the left would have been singing quite a different tune. There an Arab saying that goes something like "whichever God the King worships his subjects will worship." The anti-war cause is something that the left has been able to hang its hat on in order to attack the current right-wing government, that's all.

To claim that being left-wing means one is anti-American' means that you MUST be right-wing to truly support the American ideals and yet this throws all these same ideals of freedom and rights that you claim America stands for away!

I agree with the first half of that statement. America is founded upon ideals that are right-wing. I disagree with the last half. If someone wants to be anti-American, that's up to them. My identifying them as anti-American in no way takes away their freedom to act however they like. Saying that I can't identify them as anti-American takes away my freedom of speech and expression.

Real freedom is being able to stand up and say "This is WRONG and we want better". Being forced to comply and stay silent on issues is what happens when either extreme, both right and left, have too much power.

Yes! (finally we agree!...lol) But as mentioned, it is the left that tends more towards the curtailment of these freedoms.

Lastly, I can't quite believe this statement:

Communism isn't coming to get you and it never was, the whole idea was an invention of our own governments as a way to control us.

I would like to watch you explain that to my parents in-law, who had to abandon everything they had and flee with just what they and their children could carry, when the tanks of the Communist State rolled through Hungary.

Btw, I know you are a member of the Tory party. But, you also support Manchester City, so I must conclude that you just have an extraordinary sympathy for the underdog...lol

Expatbrit

expatbrit

Six:

OK, he's a regular Joe. Isn't everyone? What he is, is someone who is insisting on his own brute self-interest to the point of returning to humanity's natural state i.e. barbarity.

Businesses that don't reign in their destructive urges are the commercial equivalent to this average Joe, yes?

So, that fits with my last post. The State should have a minumum prescence, necessary only to prevent individuals (whether people or businesses) from killing each other.

Expatbrit

Pleasuredome

(Where is my flip chart? Where is my pointer?)

i dont think many of us give a toss about your personal gripes. they have nothing to do with this thread.

if we had all missed the point about your gripe post which had nothing to do with WMD, why have you just typed 3 paragraphs talking about WMD?

plus, how can we see your point anyway, when you havent proved that simon is anti-american and that this thread is anti-american?

you are starting to let yourself down, francois.

SixofNine

But but but.....

WoMD ... so where are they?

Share this