WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon 865 Replies latest social current

  • Realist
    Realist

    hello Pleasuredome!

    New Yorker: Bush Endorsed Forgery about Iraq Nuclear Program

    March 26, 2003 | home

    WHO LIED TO WHOM? by SEYMOUR M. HERSH

    ... Two days later, Secretary of State Colin Powell, appearing before a closed hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also cited Iraq’s attempt to obtain uranium from Niger as evidence of its persistent nuclear ambitions. The testimony from Tenet and Powell helped to mollify the Democrats, and two weeks later the resolution passed overwhelmingly, giving the President a congressional mandate for a military assault on Iraq...

    President Bush cited the uranium deal, along with the aluminum tubes, in his State of the Union Message, on January 28th, while crediting Britain as the source of the information: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” He commented, “Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.”

    Then the story fell apart. On March 7th, Mohamed ElBaradei, the director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, in Vienna, told the U.N. Security Council that the documents involving the Niger-Iraq uranium sale were fakes. “The I.A.E.A. has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts, that these documents . . . are in fact not authentic,” ElBaradei said.

    One senior I.A.E.A. official went further. He told me, “These documents are so bad that I cannot imagine that they came from a serious intelligence agency. It depresses me, given the low quality of the documents, that it was not stopped. At the level it reached, I would have expected more checking.”

    well one has to admit that there still is the undeniable possibility that poor innocent little bush was simply mislead by evil or completely incompetent CIA and MI6 agents! therefore he of course has to reamain innocent until proven otherwise

  • Simon
    Simon
    I think I've made myself very clear about this. A few of us had a thread going a couple of weeks ago, and we were tooling along enjoying ourselves, minding our own business when BOOM, along comes Simon intoning how he was "tired of all this bullshit" or words to that effect and ZAP, our little thread was locked.

    Maybe your opinion but incorrect

    Apparently Simon can permit whatever he wants even if the topic has been beaten into a bloody pulp - like this one so long as HE likes it, but the r&f cannot enjoy it's little thread on a topic Simon doesn't care for without him locking our thread. AND there's no favoritism on this site...in a pig's eye there isn't.

    Yes, I can permit whatever I want and I can also lock or delete things that I don't permit. However, I have not allowed one side only to have their say on this or any other topic.

    Simon, I really don't care if there IS favoritism on this site, but I'd appreciate your having the balls to admit it. Since this is an anti-US site, I'd have to guess that it will go in in perpetuity, since you like it so much. But Jesus Christ don't let the r&f get a thread going on a topic that makes you "tired of this bullshit" or we'll be locked down tighter than a crab's ass.

    Ywan, yawn, yawn. Same old "ooh, anti-US" nonsense. It really is getting very, very, very worn out and old.

    May I remind you of the terms and conditions of using the site. If you are not happy then don't use it.

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic

    Francois,

    Apparently Simon can permit whatever he wants even if the topic has been beaten into a bloody pulp - like this one so long as HE likes it, but the r&f cannot enjoy it's little thread on a topic Simon doesn't care for without him locking our thread. AND there's no favoritism on this site...in a pig's eye there isn't.

    Uh, of course Simon can permit what he wants.....he owns the site. Its a perk of ownership.

    Simon, I really don't care if there IS favoritism on this site, but I'd appreciate your having the balls to admit it.

    On the whole, Simon admits where he is breaking his own rules. As far as "favortism" goes, Simon is not perfect, but he tries not to show favoritism.

    Since this is an anti-US site...

    I have not noticed this.

    Soooo....can this thread get back on topic now? The topic is WoMD....

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    realist

    simply mislead by evil or completely incompetent CIA and MI6 agents!

    and so was tony blair. oooohh, those bad naughty secret services!

  • dubla
    dubla

    realist-

    its funny since you cannot win in the big picture you try to adhere to unimportant details in my posts.

    first off, let me just say: to that comment. its a nice way to try and devalue my points, but its completely false. personally, i dont consider intentional fabrications and fact twisting to be "unimportant details", and i think its valuable to debunk those statements as soon as i notice them.

    the latest team still says they are NOT sites for WMD production.

    the "latest team" was undecided, so lets not get back to word twisting (thats quite the talent you have).

    since i am not a native speaker perhaps you can explain the term " more senior analyst " to me.

    i would guess they are analysts that have more seniority than the others.

    LOL you weisenheimer...it could also mean 1 to 20! LOL

    the article specifically said that only "several" of the analysts were skeptical. i suppose "several" could mean 20, but its usually used to mean 3 or 4, and ive never heard anyone use it for a large number.

    LOL a very small minority??? since you are demanding proof for every assumption please show me a link that proves this point! LOL you know even 51 to 49 is a majority! LOL

    yes, to me "several" compared to all the groups of analysts that examined the trucks is no doubt a very small minority.....i think most anyone would agree to that.

    i guess they should have declared every driving vehicle in the entire country! LOL

    the vehicle factories, yes. wouldnt this seem logical to you, considering the implications?

    aa

  • Realist
    Realist

    dubla,

    its a nice way to try and devalue my points, but its completely false. personally, i dont consider intentional fabrications and fact twisting to be "unimportant details", and i think its valuable to debunk those statements as soon as i notice them.

    it is absolutely ok to correct wrong statements but it is not ok to try to disqualify everything said based on a few mistakes. the big question (issue) is whether the US admin lied about the supposed threat that hussein and iraq posed in order to lure american society and the world into following the war and the answer to that question is clear to anyone who has a shred of objectivity left.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Is that a WoMD in your pocket, or are you pleased to see me?

  • dubla
    dubla

    realist-

    it is absolutely ok to correct wrong statements but it is not ok to try to disqualify everything said based on a few mistakes.

    well, i certainly have never tried to disqualify everything youve said based solely on your fabrications. the fact that you twist the truth when its convenient does devalue your overall argument, but it certainly doesnt disqualify it. youve got the best point of all so far on your side, namely: no wmd have been found.

    aa

  • Realist
    Realist

    dubla,

    i certainly have never tried to disqualify everything youve said based solely on your fabrications.

    your entire case against me is based on me saying that part of powell's report was debunked as student paper when in fact it was only the british report that powell praised before the UN that was debunked as such. ok, my statement was inaccurate but that does hardly change anything about the cirumstances under which powell made his presentation (including the uranium lie and the at least so far unsubstanciated connections to al qaida).

    is it ok to try to attack my integrity based on that? maybe, maybe not. if it is than perhaps i should start a 5 page debate about your claim that hussein threw the inspectors out in 1998 when in fact they chose to leave. imo an inaccurate statement (such as yours or mine) deserves to be called bullshit and to be corrected but not to be the cause of a 5 page rant about the integrity of the other poster.

    in any case, our debate became pointless about 10 pages ago so i call it a truce.

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030707-461781,00.html

    N A T I O NWho Lost the WMD? As the weapons hunt intensifies, so does the finger pointing. A preview of the coming battle By MASSIMO CALABRESI AND TIMOTHY J. BURGER

    ERIC DRAPER/THE WHITE HOUSE/AP QUESTION TIME: Bush huddles with Bremer and Franks in Doha, Qatar

    Sunday, Jun. 29, 2003Meeting last month at a sweltering U.S. base outside Doha, Qatar, with his top Iraq commanders, President Bush skipped quickly past the niceties and went straight to his chief political obsession: Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Turning to his Baghdad proconsul, Paul Bremer, Bush asked, "Are you in charge of finding WMD?" Bremer said no, he was not. Bush then put the same question to his military commander, General Tommy Franks. But Franks said it wasn't his job either. A little exasperated, Bush asked, So who is in charge of finding WMD? After aides conferred for a moment, someone volunteered the name of Stephen Cambone, a little-known deputy to Donald Rumsfeld, back in Washington. Pause. "Who?" Bush asked.

    It seems as if just about everyone has questions these days about the missing WMD. Did U.S. intelligence officials—or their civilian bosses—overstate the evidence of weapons before the war? And if some intelligence officials expressed skepticism about WMD, who ignored them? For the past several weeks, the usually lockstep Bush Administration has done its best to maintain a unified front in the face of these queries. Whenever asked, Administration officials have replied that the weapons will turn up eventually. But as the search drags on through its third largely futile month, the blame game in Washington has gone into high gear. And as Bush's allies and enemies alike on Capitol Hill begin to pick apart some 19 volumes of prewar intelligence and examine them one document at a time, the cohesive Bush team is starting to come apart. "This is a cloud hanging over their credibility, their word," Republican Senate Intelligence Committee member Chuck Hagel told abc News. Here are key questions Congress wants answered:

    What Was Cheney's Role?
    Lawmakers who once saluted every Bush claim and command are beginning to express doubts. Two congressional panels are opening new rounds of investigations into the Administration's prewar claims about WMD. One of their immediate inquiries, sources tell Time, involves Vice President Dick Cheney's role in reviewing the intelligence before the bombing started. Cheney made repeated visits to the CIA in the prelude to the war, going over intelligence assessments with the analysts who produced them. Some Democrats say Cheney's visits may have amounted to pressure on the normally cautious agency. Cheney's defenders insist that his visits merely showed the importance of the issue and that an honest analyst wouldn't feel pressure to twist intelligence. The House intelligence committee (and possibly its Senate counterpart, sources say) plans to question the CIA analysts who briefed Cheney, and that could lead to calling Cheney's hard-line aides and perhaps the Veep himself to testify.

    Is Powell Trying To Have It Both Ways?
    Secretary of State Colin Powell, who staked his reputation on his February declaration at the U.N. about Saddam Hussein's arms program, is also feeling the heat. Powell's aides fanned out after that performance to say the Secretary had gone to the CIA and scrubbed every piece of intelligence to make certain it was solid. But since then, little of Powell's presentation has been proved by evidence on the ground, and last week his aides were on the defensive over a memo from the State Department's intelligence bureau that questioned whether two Iraqi trailers discovered in April were mobile bioweapons labs, as Powell has asserted. Questionable intelligence that made it into Powell's February speech leaves him particularly vulnerable. Expect a push by Democrats, and perhaps some Republicans, to seek Powell's testimony too.

    Will Tenet Be Left Holding the Bag?
    CIA Director George Tenet is faring a bit better. The House committee's top Democrat, Jane Harman, noted last week that "caveats and qualifiers" Tenet raised in prewar intelligence about Iraq's weapons were "rarely included" in Administration arguments for war. After the awkward Q&A in Doha, Bush put Tenet in charge of the WMD hunt. Tenet in turn hired a former U.N. weapons inspector, David Kay, to run the search, but Tenet and Kay have a lot of ground to make up fast. Tenet, sources say, recently conceded to the House panel that the CIA should have done more to warn that finding WMD could be a drawn-out process. Tenet got a reprieve last week when an Iraqi scientist who had hidden parts and documents for nuclear-weapons production in his backyard for 12 years came forward. Tenet's usually behind-the-scenes CIA suddenly became very public in trumpeting the importance of the discovery, if only to remind people how hard illicit weapons would be to find. But Tenet's hot zone isn't Baghdad; it's Capitol Hill. He canceled testimony before the Senate committee last week, citing a schedule conflict. If he doesn't find any weapons, he needs to find a way not to be blamed.

    Bush officials believe that time and history are on their side. They argue that now that Saddam is gone, Americans don't care very much about finding WMD. They also say it is only a matter of time before more evidence of weapons materials and programs emerges. And when that occurs, they contend, all their opponents will look as silly as they did when they argued that the war was going badly in its second week. "The Dems are looking for an issue, but I think they're making a mistake," says a senior Administration official.

    Democrats do sense a possibly potent campaign theme, but they run the risk of appearing to politicize a sensitive national-security issue as they try to prove the Administration has a credibility gap. But Democrats are not alone in feeling as though they may have been sandbagged on the evidence before the war began. Sources say g.o.p. Senate Intelligence Committee members Olympia Snowe and Hagel have privately questioned the Administration's handling of prewar intelligence. The Republican-held House voted last week to order the CIA to report back on "lessons learned" from the buildup to war in Iraq. The House and Senate intelligence-committee leaders have agreed to coordinate their probes loosely to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort. In a rare move, the House panel quietly voted on June 12 to grant all 435 Representatives access to the Iraq intelligence, although a Capitol Hill source said fewer than 10 members outside the committee had reviewed the material.

    Administration officials have a further concern about where all these questions are leading. They fear that any problem with the prewar intelligence could undermine Bush's ability to continue his muscular campaign against terrorism overseas. The Administration has argued that to counter new kinds of threats posed by terrorists, rogue states and WMD, it has to be able to act pre-emptively. But pre-emption requires excellent intelligence, and the whole doctrine is undermined if the intelligence is wrong—or confected. "Intelligence takes on an even more important role than in the past because you can't wait until you see an enemy army massing anymore," says former Clinton Deputy National Security Adviser James Steinberg. But if WMD don't turn up and the Administration wants to act elsewhere, it may find that the enemy massing against it is public opinion at home.

    From the Jul. 07, 2003 issue of TIME magazine

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