WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon 865 Replies latest social current

• 

  dubla

  reborn-

  I apologize if I wrongly insinuated you were somehow a member of a "pro-Bush" camp.

  no problem....it just gets a little old, and its not just you.......theres a good number of people on the "antiwar" side that have a habit of lumping anyone prowar into the "worshipers of bush" camp.

  What I stated was extremely relevant to this discussion.

  i suppose in the context of what simon was trying to accomplish with this thread, you are right....as he was trying to imply motives outside of wmd for the war, and your post did indeed talk about other motives, so maybe "bait and switch" was a little off as a description.

  you addressed me about a statement i made though, concerning what the u.s. did or didnt claim to have known about wmd factories in iraq, and i was simply wanting to stick to that subject rather than veer off and argue about oil and vendettas....as these things have been argued to death already, and i honestly dont have anything new to add. even in your post you said: "Not to veer off topic (which is exactly what I did)..."

  i did respond to what i felt was relevant to my comments, which was this:

  Colin Powell marched in front of the United Nations and provided so-called evidence that they were certain beyond any doubt whatsoever that the Iraqi government was developing Weapons of Mass Destruction. If the United States intelligence was so effective so as to take satellite imagery of locations believed to be factories for production, even going as far to provide detailed photographs demonstrating how they changed from day to day... yet now that the United States has TOTAL DOMINANCE of the sovereign state of Iraq, and can go as they please throughout the country, and in a matter of weeks is UNABLE to FIND ANYTHING.. when prior to the war they justified the very conflict by stating they KNEW the Iraqis have weapons, and they had the intelligence to provide evidence... who really is being duped here?

  i have shown, through links, that the only thing powell marched in front of the u.n. with, evidence wise, was a stack of photos showing factories that had already been bulldozed and moved.

  i also ask, how do we monitor changes in photographs, and truck movements at this point? there is no more movement or change because the regime is no longer in control.....so now we have to search through the rubble to find whats left, and i believe thats what were doing. as the article in my last post showed, theres plenty more sites to be searched, and more are popping up all the time as the iraqis continue to help.

  one of us will be proven correct, so its really just a matter of time now. if no wmd are found, ive already stated that i would have to seriously re-think my stance on the entire premise for war.......are you willing to do the same if wmd are found? or will you simply look for a copout (they were planted, etc.)? if we find trucks like the ones powell described and showed photos/diagrams of, will some of you start stepping forward and admitting some credibility to the u.s. reports of wmd? or will they simply be trucks the u.s. designed and flew over to iraq?

  aa
• 

  Trauma_Hound

  Jayson spewed once again:

  T H actually has it right. In 2004 He and I will matter. Simon you still will not. And Charley's team will probably take Wa state as his team always does. (Assuming he votes) He will because the population is centered in a few counties. Most of the State votes one way and three counties make the choice. Right now the anti-bushies would vote Hitler in to get Bush out. I hope they fail. Thus far polls show that he is unbeatable. I think that 2004 is a long ways off and anything can happen between now and then.

  Uh it's Charlie, and what team is that? My "Team" didn't win washington state the last time around. This once again proves, you don't know what the f*** your talking about. I don't vote by party, get it yet? Nope wouldn't vote for hitler, that's why I didn't vote for bush.
• 

  Reborn2002

  Yes, Trauma-Hound, I noticed Jayson said that as well.

  T H actually has it right. In 2004 He and I will matter. Simon you still will not. And Charley's team will probably take Wa state as his team always does. (Assuming he votes) He will because the population is centered in a few counties. Most of the State votes one way and three counties make the choice. Right now the anti-bushies would vote Hitler in to get Bush out. I hope they fail. Thus far polls show that he is unbeatable. I think that 2004 is a long ways off and anything can happen between now and then.

  Jayson, you are demonstrating your naivety and ignorance by making immature statements like that.

  I vote for candidates based on their platforms, not blindly following party lines or partisan politics.

  Anti-Bush? You betcha. Look at his track record. I see you conveniently avoided everything I said regarding George W. Bush's history. I wonder why that is? Right-wing conservatives or Bush-supporters tend to do that.

  Voting for Hitler to remove Bush? Surely you are being satirical, because if you are being serious, then you are making yourself look foolish by making such generalizing, outlandish statements.

  Lately it seems to be a bit one-sided when it comes to civil liberties and the ability to express your opinion in this country. It is taboo for individuals to criticize George W. Bush ONCE in a public forum (see Dixie Chicks, who were censored by radio stations for their statements, despite freedom of expression) yet Rush Limbaugh can go on his radio show reaching millions and criticize Bill Clinton every day for a decade, and that is acceptable and even viewed as patriotic!

  Don't get me wrong. I think Bill Clinton in some aspects was an embarrassment to his country regarding morality. However, morality has nothing to do with the capacity to satisfactorily do one's job. Look at Bush's track record. Every corporation he held an executive position with LOST MONEY or FOLDED.

  Your willful ignorance and propensity to label people amuses me.
• 

  Jayson

  Charlie geez on a first name basis. No way you are you are way to much of a prick for that. I was complementing you; you Asexual screwup. Jesus Christ you two are aholes! The team is the get bush out team. That is all you care about. And Washington State where the fat charley is from always is taken by the non-republican. And yes the "hitler" thing was not literal. Although a dead person would probably make more sense to you than Bush. And reborn stick it with the dixie chicks. That is so played out. It is all of you who say what can be said or done about what people say. You are the anti-freedom folk and to stupid to see it. I have no issue with the political stars. But I also have no issue with those that do. Its a country where the freedom goes all ways. Bush even said he has no issue with the Chicks. The only issues is with people like you all. No one makes you watch Fox or listen to talk radio. The only reason why you give a shit is you can't stop them. You just can't stand it that others do watch listen and agree. I don't even listen to Rush. I don't like him. If he were canceled I could not care less. But I sure as hell don't bitch and moan like you and Charles when others don't let you have your way. No wonder Bill tells you to stuff it T H. You are an ass.
• 

  Jayson

  In the begining of all this I agreed with the fact that to say that the WMD's and the issue of them matter. I agreed with Simon that they matter. But that is not good enough. I also stated many times that in the USA Fox news is not the soul source of information. Nor is talk radio. But to a few that is all that anyone who will not fall in line with Simon's view must listen to for information; As Simon hammers on and on about Fox. All I ever really asked is that the book "The Threating Storm" by Kennith Pollak be looked at. Look at it as a source to answer some of the questions. Mr. Pollak works for the CIA as an analysist and is an expert on Iraq and Saddam. He goes over every aspect of the issue. It is by far the best book I have read on the issue. But not one of you even do anything but continue your bitch session. There are many other great sources. But I just recommend this one. How many times is CoC recommended to those who want questions answered about the Jehovah Witnesses? But that source is often ignored by those who only want to argue. And like the book that I recommend there are others about JW's but CoC is a great one. As I said before this thread is played out. But for those who just want a fight bring it on.
• 

  Reborn2002

  Jayson-

  A word of advice. Learn to formulate coherent, complete sentences with remotely proper pronunciation otherwise you detract from your credibility as an intelligent individual and make yourself look bad. I am not trying to be insulting, I am simply stating that if you expect to be taken seriously, you should consider working on your presentation.

  Now, allow me to pick apart your comments piece-by-piece.

  The team is the get bush out team. That is all you care about. And Washington State where the fat charley is from always is taken by the non-republican.

  All I care about? Hardly. Resorting to ad hominem attacks by referring to an individual as fat is certainly a good way to earn respect. Nevertheless, this is not about "hating" George Bush. It is about hypocrisy and a double standard that is readily apparent.

  And yes the "hitler" thing was not literal. Although a dead person would probably make more sense to you than Bush.

  Is that the best you can do? Make outlandish remarks comparing someone to Hitler and then referencing corpses as an attempted insult?

  And reborn stick it with the dixie chicks. That is so played out. It is all of you who say what can be said or done about what people say. You are the anti-freedom folk and to stupid to see it.

  On the contrary, my inference of the Dixie Chicks was very relevant. You call me anti-freedom? The very reason I mentioned them was due to the fact they were censored on radio stations for exercising their right to freedom of expression. Who really is too stupid to see it?

  I have no issue with the political stars. But I also have no issue with those that do. Its a country where the freedom goes all ways. Bush even said he has no issue with the Chicks. The only issues is with people like you all. No one makes you watch Fox or listen to talk radio. The only reason why you give a shit is you can't stop them. You just can't stand it that others do watch listen and agree. I don't even listen to Rush. I don't like him. If he were canceled I could not care less. But I sure as hell don't bitch and moan like you and Charles when others don't let you have your way.

  It does not necessarily matter if you as an individual like Rush Limbaugh. Can you not comprehend a legitimate analogy and comparison which shows a double-standard? Apparently not.

  Let me spell it out for you.

  Dixie Chicks + criticize Bush once = censored (for using freedom of expression) and labeled unpatriotic

  Rush Limbaugh + criticize Clinton every day for years = acceptable, not censored, considered patriotic

  I am not concerned about stopping anyone Jayson. What you fail to comprehend is I have a problem with a double-standard. I encourage everyone to have the right to freedom of expression, as long as those freedoms are able to be expressed from both sides of the political spectrum evenly.

  Who is bitching and moaning? Throughout this entire thread I have given facts to support my statements. Where are yours?

  When you are capable of deductive reasoning and analytical research then step up to the grown up table. Until then you are making yourself out to be a fool.
• 

  Jayson

  Using words like "blabering" and "spewing" when refering to me are far from the high road you sanctimonious son of a bitch. You want to argue with belligerence fine I will to. You want to refrain from it fine I will to. Comments about Facist, Nazi, and assuming names of stupidity and belittling you and others use will I will be returning in kind plus more.

  Your comments on things like spelling and pronunciation used to be limited to JWD's defending the faith they say that all who oppose the WT are stupid. Now you use it on me. And once again I say you are a dub of a different feather. "Hate Bush or I will attack you. Admit that the USA was 100% wrong in the war with Iraq and Bush is not the President of the country or you are a dumb nazi." I am sick of it. I offer sources of information that are worthy of merit and you dismiss them outright without examination. You say I am dumb. That I need an education. You need a shrink to get over your Dub mentality. You say that I am lazy in my education. You are to lazy to even give me the courtesy of looking up what I offer before you dismiss it. So F. O. Reborn! When you take the time to look at what I offer then I will accept your critical opinion until then F O!

  And I'm telling you for the last time no one is forcing a boycott. It is a choice. I am not doing it. I don't know anyone who is. But, I support the right to if I choose. Remember the book "Rush Lumbaugh is a big fat dumb idiot?" Oh ya that was kind. Sally Jessy screaming at him at an award ceremony in which he was to recieve a reward. Oh ya, only the left is ever criticized. And Moore is all so kind to Bush. Mad TV has great fun with Bill O. Remember (R) Lott giving his personal opinion? Oh he was free to express himself wasn't he there were no consequences were there? Speech is not free from consequence butt wipe. It never has been and never will be. Deal with it!
• 

  Trauma_Hound

  Jayboy sez:

  Charlie geez on a first name basis. No way you are you are way to much of a prick for that. I was complementing you; you Asexual screwup. Jesus Christ you two are aholes! The team is the get bush out team. That is all you care about. And Washington State where the fat charley is from always is taken by the non-republican. And yes the "hitler" thing was not literal. Although a dead person would probably make more sense to you than Bush. And reborn stick it with the dixie chicks. That is so played out. It is all of you who say what can be said or done about what people say. You are the anti-freedom folk and to stupid to see it. I have no issue with the political stars. But I also have no issue with those that do. Its a country where the freedom goes all ways. Bush even said he has no issue with the Chicks. The only issues is with people like you all. No one makes you watch Fox or listen to talk radio. The only reason why you give a shit is you can't stop them. You just can't stand it that others do watch listen and agree. I don't even listen to Rush. I don't like him. If he were canceled I could not care less. But I sure as hell don't bitch and moan like you and Charles when others don't let you have your way. No wonder Bill tells you to stuff it T H. You are an ass.

  Listen you blithering idiot, you can't even come up with any good arguments, so you sit there and insult anybody that is anti-bush. Do yourself a favor, and get off the drugs, you sound like a crank whore on a 2 day binge, your train of thought de-railed several times. Calling me asexual is just stupid and childish. And it's Charlie, do you understand the difference between the male and female versions of the name? I agree Washington State is usually taken by the democrats, but we did have a couple of replublican governors in the recent past. So again your stupid statement, was full of crap, because "My party" did not win. Though again I didn't vote for any party, and am not apart of any party. Anti-freedom? Hey moron, the republicans are the ones that drafted the US un-Patriot act. I happen to be a member of the EFF, along with the ACLU, so bite me crank boy.
• 

  Jayson

  Oh C H A R L E S,
  
  
  I am not arguing. After Redubs comments about e d u c a t i o n I told him to look at what I had put forth in the begining or F O. Same comments to you Chuck. And Washington is usually Democraticly controlled at least almost always in anything controled by the big three counties, it is anti Republican in those counties which the power centers. Thus your "Get rid of Bush in 2004 comment applies. When you said so simply "Vote him out." Minus your stupid Bush hate dribble I thought there is an reasonable answer to all of this on the topic. You saw an opportunity to join a fight and here we are. None of you have offered anything worth reading. Your opinions don't count for jack. This is such a dub session. It [this thread] only applies to your carping about Bush and the US policy. There is not any merit and you all know it. I am quite sure history will prove me right. For that we will have to wait and see. Not that you will ever accept Bush was right and those who are in power have information that you don't. In your reality you are right and anyone who will not bend to your will is wrong. The lack of the WMD in Iraq to date do not prove Simons case or yours.
  
  
  The patriot act..That we are loosing all of our freedoms? Really..How many wiretaps after the passage has there been compared to before? Has the sunset been done away with? Your fear of it is like crying the sky is falling. Dumb, dumb, dumb, just like you. Is the end of the system just around the corner? Just wondering I thought you might have a bead on that as well.
  
  
  I wondered why Bill would ever accept any help in his cause if you trash him. Now I know, you lure people in and then shit on them. I'm sure there are a few here who could elaberate on your M O but I am not willing to really go there. So either look at what I have been putting forward in book form and not TV sound bites or the ahole opinions put forth. Take the time to read a real book if there is an ounce of man in you. I really don't think there is. And until you do F O manboy.
• 

  Jayson

  http://www.fff.org/issues/listsxm.asp
  
  
  Reborns author is an advocate of the Libertarian movement. Above here are all of his Bush & other essays. I will let you decide if he has an agenda when he writes or not.
  
  "I refuse to do all the work for you. Educate yourself. I have limited respect for people who are lazy and unwilling to examine the facts objectively from both sides."
  
  
  And now I call you out Reborn. I challenge you to read "The Threatening Storm." by Pollak.
  
  http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=0D3WNJTUVZ&sourceid=00393694018023735242&bfdate=05%2D15%2D2003+00%3A07%3A46&isbn=0375509283&itm=1
  
  
  Sorry, it is very long and there is not much sensation to it. But it is in depth about Iraq, Saddam, all the countries that have a stake, and the US. It is about where we were, where we are, and where we are going. Educate yourself Reborn. Only you will know if you take on my challenge or if you are a hypocrite.
  
  
  And I challenge anyone who wants to have a better understanding of the situation to read the book that I have linked to BN. For those who will not I will no longer waste my time.