by UnDisfellowshipped 126 Replies latest jw friends
What hasn't been said is that the media is speculating that the UN has been damaged by the recent war. Is this new Watchtower attempting to speed up the new light pre-empting the possibility that the UN will completely dissolve?
Wouldn't it be a double blow to the GB if they did go ahead with those changes a year and a half ago to find the UN does disolve. Whatever changes take place in the UN, it will be hard to explain using current doctrine.
As world events unfold unrelated to Bible prophecies, we manipulate our writings to make you think we have a clearer picture. Jehovah's people avoid speculation about (or criticism of) the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation.
bttt
No activity on this thread today? Who's got the real story?
If you read all of the paragraphs under the subheading it appears that they are talking about the King of the North and not the Beast associated with the UN. Since the fall of the USSR many Witnesses have speculated on who would replace the USSR as the King of the North.
They can't get rid of Matthew 24 either as has been mentioned. It contains the infamous FDS clause and their whole religion would topple.
But isn't speculating about all this stuff fun!
Mr Kim said:
This is great stuff! That is,--- the statements, thoughts and the ever great questions posed to Jehovah's Witnesses, about the WTBTS, the GB and more. Any rank and file care to TRY to answer and explain?
I have your explanation (this from being a witness for 45 years)
They are dishonest, unethical, uneducated impostors; some of them believe their own press and have a god complex. A large part of the rank and file still cannot separate them from God, Jehovah I should say, in their minds. Think of how they are going to feel/think/react when they realize that 1. God does not change; 2. They speak for God; 3. Understanding of major player on the world scene has changed; 4. They speak for God, if I question that in my own mind, I am questioning God.
In their mind, mine too until recently, that loop will play on for days until they must shut it off or go crazy. They cannot talk about it with anyone save a therapist, or risk df'ing; I have come to view them as one of the truly evil bodies on the earth. Why? They have the power to change, tell the truth, and in all reality, they would not lose more than 25% of the rank and file, who just want to fellowship with other believers and be reassured of a better future. Still, they will not do it; they are NEVER wrong, only misunderstood. They apply rules to US that they will not follow; they are truly the modern day Pharisees.
I have rather intense feelings about this, you might realize.
I think many Witnesses are not even going to notice this change unless it is pointed out to them by an objective source. I could kick myself for all the hundreds of hours I spent over a 40 year period attending the Book Study to learn prophetic explanations that for the most part have been abandoned or changed.
Many of us went thru the newer Revelation book 3 times and now some of it's key teachings are no longer considered valid! This is why I avoid the Book Study like the plague. Every verse of Isaiah is supposed to have a modern day meaning. The last time I went they started on the 1918 era and how major Bible prophecy was fulfilled at a Cedar Point assembly attended by a few hundred people.
Many will say this United Nations disclamer is a clearer understanding and 'new light'. All it really says is "We were guessing and never really knew and now we have run out of explanations".
If you can't explain prophecy untill after it is fullfilled you are just explaining history.
Well said P.O.---WELL SAID!
Mr. KIM
In reply to GermanJW and also Analysis,
The 6-1-03 Watchtower Article, Page 20, Paragraph 11, is talking about who Gog of Magog [Satan] will use to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses in the Final Attack at Armageddon. Paragraph 11 says that we do not know who Gog is going to use, and that we shouldn't even speculate about who it might be.
Then the following Paragraphs, after Paragraph 11, talk about the new "King of the North" making an attack on the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon.
This means several things:
1: This means that the Watchtower Society is now teaching that the "King of the North" will attack the Jehovah's Witnesses, and NOT the United Nations [Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast], OR this means that the United Nations will make an attack, and the "King of the North" will also make an attack. Either way, it changes what the Watchtower has been teaching for decades about the United Nations.
2: The Watchtower Society has been teaching for decades that the Scarlet-Beast [the United Nations] would first attack Babylon, and then attack the Jehovah's Witnesses (They even taught this in the Isaiah Book Volume 1, Pages 153-154). So, this new 6-1-03 Article raises some questions: Is the Scarlet-Beast [U.N.] going to attack Babylon, or is the "King of the North" going to attack Babylon? Is the Scarlet-Beast still the United Nations? Will there be two different attacks on the Jehovah's Witnesses -- one by the Scarlet-Beast [U.N.] and then another by the "King of the North"? Who is the "King of the North"? If the "King of the North" is one Country, or one group of Countries, then how will the "King of the North" be able to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide in all the different Countries?
Here are three different Quotes that everyone should use to compare the 6-1-03 Watchtower with:
Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! Book (Published in 1988), Pages 254-256, Chapter 35:
10. Notice that the scarlet-colored wild beast “is also itself an eighth king.” Thus, the United Nations today is designed to look like a world government. At times it has even acted like one, sending armies into the field to resolve international disputes, as in Korea, the Sinai Peninsula, some African countries, and Lebanon. But it is only the image of a king. Like a religious image, it has no real influence or power apart from what is invested in it by those who brought it into existence and worship it. On occasion, this symbolic wild beast looks weak; but it has never experienced the kind of wholesale abandonment by dictator-oriented members that sent the League of Nations reeling into the abyss. (Revelation 17:8) Though holding radically different opinions in other areas, a prominent Soviet leader in 1987 joined the popes of Rome in expressing support for the UN. He even called for “a comprehensive system of international security” based on the UN. As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority. Then it, in its turn, “goes off into destruction.”
Ten Kings for One Hour
11. In the previous chapter of Revelation, the sixth and seventh angels poured out bowls of the anger of God. Thus we were advised that earth’s kings are being gathered to God’s war at Armageddon and that ‘Babylon the Great is to be remembered in the sight of God.’ (Revelation 16:1, 14, 19) Now we will learn in greater detail how God’s judgments on these are to be executed. Listen again to Jehovah’s angel as he speaks to John. “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.”—Revelation 17:12-14.
12. The ten horns depict all the political powers that presently hold sway on the world scene and that support the image of the wild beast. Very few of the countries that now exist were known in John’s day. And those that were, such as Egypt and Persia (Iran), today have an entirely different political setup. Hence, in the first century, the ‘ten horns had not yet received a kingdom.’ But now in the Lord’s day, they have “a kingdom,” or political authority. With the collapse of the great colonial empires, particularly since the second world war, many new nations have been born. These, as well as the longer-established powers, must rule with the wild beast for a short period—just “one hour”—before Jehovah brings an end to all worldly political authority at Armageddon.
13. Today, nationalism is one of the strongest forces motivating these ten horns. They have “one thought” in that they want to preserve their national sovereignty rather than accept God’s Kingdom. This was their purpose in subscribing to the League of Nations and the United Nations organization in the first place—to preserve world peace and thus safeguard their own existence. Such an attitude ensures that the horns will oppose the Lamb, the “Lord of lords and King of kings,” because Jehovah has purposed that his Kingdom under Jesus Christ will shortly replace all these kingdoms.—Daniel 7:13, 14; Matthew 24:30; 25:31-33, 46.
14. Of course, there is nothing that the rulers of this world can do against Jesus himself. He is in heaven, far out of their reach. But Jesus’ brothers, the remaining ones of the woman’s seed, are still on earth and apparently vulnerable. (Revelation 12:17) Many of the horns have already demonstrated bitter hostility toward them, and in this way they have battled with the Lamb. (Matthew 25:40, 45) Soon, though, the time will come for God’s Kingdom to “crush and put an end to all these kingdoms.” (Daniel 2:44) Then, the kings of the earth will be in a fight to the finish with the Lamb, as we shall soon see. (Revelation 19:11-21) But here we learn enough to realize that the nations will not succeed. Though they and the UN scarlet-colored wild beast have their “one thought,” they cannot defeat the great “Lord of lords and King of kings,” nor can they defeat “those called and chosen and faithful with him,” which includes his anointed followers still on earth. These too will have conquered by keeping integrity in answer to Satan’s vile accusations.—Romans 8:37-39; Revelation 12:10, 11.
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Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! Book (Published in 1988), Page 279, Chapter 39:
With the desolating of Babylon the Great, the great tribulation will already have started. Then, urged on by Satan, the scarlet-colored wild beast and its ten horns will concentrate their attack on Jehovah’s people. The Devil, more wrathful than ever at God’s womanlike organization, is determined to use his dupes in waging war to a finish with the remaining ones of her seed. (Revelation 12:17) This is Satan’s last opportunity!
2. The Devil’s vicious assault is vividly described in Ezekiel chapter 38. There, the debased Satan is called "Gog of the land of Magog."___________________________________________________
Isaiah's Prophecy - Light For All Mankind Book (Published in 2000), Volume 1, Pages 153-154, Chapter 12:
20. Whom will Jehovah use to discipline rebellious Christendom? We find the answer in the 17th chapter of Revelation. There we are introduced to a harlot, “Babylon the Great,” representing all the world’s false religions, including Christendom. The harlot is riding a scarlet-colored wild beast that has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3, 5, 7-12) The wild beast represents the United Nations organization. Just as the ancient Assyrian destroyed Samaria, the scarlet-colored wild beast “will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of existence.
21. Will Jehovah’s faithful Witnesses perish along with Babylon the Great? No. God is not displeased with them. Pure worship will survive. However, the wild beast that destroys Babylon the Great also casts a greedy eye in the direction of Jehovah’s people. In doing so, the beast carries out, not God’s thought, but the thought of someone else. Who? Satan the Devil.
22. Jehovah exposes Satan’s prideful scheme: “It must occur in that day that things will come up into your [Satan’s] heart, and you will certainly think up an injurious scheme; and you must say: ‘I shall . . . come in upon those having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without [a protective] wall . . .’ It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering.” (Ezekiel 38:10-12) Satan will reason, ‘Yes, why not incite the nations to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses? They are vulnerable, unprotected, without political influence. They will offer no resistance. How easy it will be to pluck them like eggs from an unprotected nest!’
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The Watchtower, June 1, 2003 Issue, Page 20:
11. Gog of Magog is identified as Satan the Devil in his debased condition since 1914. As a spirit creature, he cannot carry out his attack directly, but will use human agencies to do his deeds. Who will these human agencies be? The Bible does not give us details, yet it does give us certain indications that can help us to identify who they will be. As world events unfold in fulfilment of Bible propecies, we gradually get an ever clearer picture. Jehovah's people avoid speculation but remain spiritually alert, fully aware of political and religious developments that fit into the framework of Bible prophecy.
