New Light on the United Nations (U.N.) (Scarlet Beast)

by UnDisfellowshipped 126 Replies latest jw friends

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    There appears to be "New Light" in the latest Watchtower Magazine (June 1st 2003 Issue).

    Several Watchtower Publications for the last 50+ years have said that the United Nations (U.N.) Organization ("The Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" of Revelation) would definitely be the Organization that will carry out Jehovah's judgment on "Babylon the Great" (False Religion), and then, under Satan's [Gog of Magog's] direction, the United Nations Organization would become "greedy", and try to attack the remaining remnant of the "Anointed" Jehovah's Witnesses and their companions, the "Great Crowd" of "Other Sheep", and then Jehovah and Jesus would destroy the United Nations Organization, along with everyone else who was not a Jehovah's Witness.

    Here is a Quote that shows this:

    Isaiah's Prophecy Book, Volume 1 (2000), Pages 153-154:

    20. Whom will Jehovah use to discipline rebellious Christendom? We find the answer in the 17th chapter of Revelation. There we are introduced to a harlot, “Babylon the Great,” representing all the world’s false religions, including Christendom. The harlot is riding a scarlet-colored wild beast that has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3, 5, 7-12) The wild beast represents the United Nations organization. Just as the ancient Assyrian destroyed Samaria, the scarlet-colored wild beast “will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of existence.

    21. Will Jehovah’s faithful Witnesses perish along with Babylon the Great? No. God is not displeased with them. Pure worship will survive. However, the wild beast that destroys Babylon the Great also casts a greedy eye in the direction of Jehovah’s people. In doing so, the beast carries out, not God’s thought, but the thought of someone else. Who? Satan the Devil.


    However, the Governing Body must have received a "Flash of New Light" in the June 1st 2003 Watchtower Magazine -- I will explain below:

    The Watchtower, June 1st 2003 Issue, Page 20, Paragraph 11 [words in brackets are added by me to explain what is being said]:

    "The Bible does not give us details [about who will attack the Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon]"

    "As world events unfold in fulfillment of Bible prophecies, we will gradually get an ever clearer picture [of who will attack Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon]."

    "Jehovah's Witnesses avoid speculation [about who will attack Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon] ..."


    Here is the Full Text of that Paragraph:

    The Watchtower, June 1, 2003 Issue, Page 20, Paragraph 11:

    "Gog of Magog is identified as Satan the Devil in his debased condition since 1914. As a spirit creature, he cannot carry out his attack directly, but will use human agencies to do his deeds. Who will these human agencies be? The Bible does not give us details, yet it does give us certain indications that can help us to identify who they will be. As world events unfold in fulfilment of Bible propecies, we gradually get an ever clearer picture. Jehovah's people avoid speculation but remain spiritually alert, fully aware of political and religious developments that fit into the framework of Bible prophecy." __________________________________

    Interesting point: The United Nations is not even mentioned in the entire Article!

    For 50+ years, the Jehovah's Witnesses have been teaching that the United Nations Organization will destroy Babylon, and will then turn on the Jehovah's Witnesses, BUT NOW, "the Bible does not give details" about who will attack the Witnesses, and Witnesses are not even supposed to speculate about who it might be!

    Below is a list of questions for Jehovah's Witnesses I have come up with on this subject -- it should be interesting to hear their answers:

    1: Is the United Nations Organization going to attack Babylon the Great, and then turn on the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    2: Or, do the Jehovah's Witnesses have no idea who is going to attack the Witnesses at Armageddon?

    3: Are Jehovah's Witnesses not supposed to even speculate on who will attack the Witnesses at Armageddon?

    4: Is the "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" the same "Beast" that will attack the Witnesses at Armageddon?

    5: Is the "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" the United Nations Organization?

    6: Is the "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" the same as "The King of the North"?

    7: If the "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" is not the same as "The King of the North", then does that mean that the "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast" will make an attack on the Jehovah's Witnesses, and then also the "King of the North" will make another attack on the Witnesses?

    8: Is the "King of the North" the one who will destroy Babylon the Great?

    9: Who is the "Eighth World Power"?

    10: Will Babylon the Great be destroyed before the attack on the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    11: According to the "Daniel's Prophecy" Book (1999), the "Eleventh Horn" [the Anglo-American World Power] will be destroyed by Jehovah and Jesus before the other nations of the world, and then the other nations will continue for "a time and a season", and then Jehovah and Jesus will destroy all nations of the world at the end of Armageddon. Is this true? How long is "a time and a season" -- 1 year and 3 months? Also, when will Jehovah destroy the Anglo-American World Power -- At Armageddon? At the Great Tribulation? Before the Great Tribulation?

    12: According to the "Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand!" Book (1988), the Anglo-American World Power is the "False Prophet" of Revelation, who "gives life" to the United Nations, and tries to force everyone to serve the United Nations. Is this true?

  • proplog2

    For 23 years I have believed that Babylon the Great is the USA. The USA is destroyed by the Wild Beast that Was yet Remains (Soviet Union/Russian Federation).

    Can you give the actual context of the June 2003 Watchtower?

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    Hello Proplog2,

    Thanks for your comments.

    I do not have the Article with me right now, but I will definitely try to post the context soon.

    The entire Article is discussing the final attack by Gog of Magog (Satan the Devil) on the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    I've thought for a long time that the King of the North/King of the South prophecy of Daniel was about the Seleucids and Ptolemys around the 2nd century BC especially Antiochus IV.

    Again my personnal view is that the descriptions in Revelation of Babylon the Great are talking about Rome and the beast would be Emporer Donatian (81-96 AD) who was viewed as Nero reborn because of his persecution of Christians. Rev 17:18 "And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth." RSV. Why 'Babylon the Great'? Well Babylon had destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC and Rome (an even greater power) was the next to detroy it in 70AD.

    I cannot see any reason to apply these 'after the event' prophecies to modern times.

    The quote "As world events unfold in fulfillment of Bible prophecies, we will gradually get an ever clearer picture [of who will attack Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon]." shows me what I've thought about the WTS for a while. It is much easier to prophesy something that has already happened. Maybe they are learning this.

    Thanks for the info Undisfellowshipped!

  • Satanus

    That confirms that the wt has been in the dark till now, and it admits that it still is. Hello!!!?


  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Theyre just wishy washing everything and vaguifying it so it is totally unable to be confirmed/disconfirmed and has all the solid reality of a vapour.I suppose the next thing will be pure "ritual" worship, if they had any, I think theyd better develop some pretty soon.

  • Francois

    Well said, Saint Satan. It is interesting to further note that each individual JW must believe and preach whatever the current understanding of the GB issues as JW "theology" regardless of how little relation it might have to reality or even common sense. Any sort of Borean-type searching of the scriptures to assure one's self that these teachings might be true will get you kicked out on your ass and shunned by all. Now, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

    I wonder if the phrase including "greedy eye" is some reference to their idea, their fear, that some organization, some government, is going to go after all their ill-gotten gains that they have stored up all these decades. Whatcha think?

    Running ahead of "Jehovah's Organization" even if your personal Borean-type discoveries prove to be right on the money will get you in deep kaka.

    Lovely group, these JWs, what?


  • ARoarer

    Maybe as events unfold, JWs may be identified as the False Prophet, and the Scarlet colored Beast is Watchower Poor JW rank and file are being blamed again for speculating. Isn't that because they have been force-fed the spiritual food of WT? Don't they realize that they are being "spiritually poisoned" with WT adding new recipes to the mix of false doctrines?

  • bjc2read

    Many thanks "UnDisfellowshipped"!

    Very enlightening news I think.

    Many have wondered about the real purpose of the Special October 8th, 2001 Meeting called by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If we remember, during that time, we had on this discussion board, even an ex-District Overseer who said there was going to be released at that particular meeting some POWERFUL CHANGES in practice and in doctrine that would greatly change and affect the JW Organization earthwide. So much so, that we would never forget the implications of such a meeting. Because of all of the hype and comments such as these, many of us were all looking forward to that big meeting. But, when the meeting was held, as you recall, nothing of any consequence was said at this big, important meeting. What could have happened?

    Further, as some of you probably remember, the ex-District Overseer (who was a regular participant on at that time) was openly chided and ridiculed by some on this discussion board because they were very disappointed in the results of the upcoming Big meeting of October 8, 2001. No, "new light" released at that time.

    Well, I believe something happened that made it impossible for the Governing Body to release their "new light" at that particular meeting.


    Think back it seems this new perspective given in the June 1st Watchtower magazine shows exactly WHAT the Governing Body was planning to bring to all JWs attention (but didn't) in the big October 8th, 2001 Meeting about the UN. They changed their minds at the last minute. It was because a "leak" sprang (by the "Guardian" newspaper in England) just before they could share the "new light" on the UN with the brothers and tell them just how they really, really felt about "relations" and dealings with the UN were to be scripturally viewed. You see was spreading fast about the WTS' involvement with the UN as NGO at that time. And of course, played a very significant role in the spreading of that information. As you recall "Hawkaw" was quite getting newspapers to visit and follow the incredibly long thread that was building up on the recent discovery of the WTS' secret involvement with the UN as NGOs. As we recall, played a very significant role in all of this, back in 2001. Do you remember?

    I also recall, so-called "apostates" giving key information to the Guardian Newspaper, who was the first to PRINT THE STORY and make it public in their newspaper and on their website, their powerful media strength. Do you remember that, all of you veteral posters on It seems, when all of this "news" spreading fast by the the so-called apostates, they simply "stole the thunder" as they say from the Governing Body itself. This all happened before the Special Meeting of October 8, 2001.

    And I believe this activity by so-called apostates in spreading the "news" about the Governing Body's Secret Affair with the UN forced the WTS into a very difficult situation, since so many people were finding out BEFORE the G.B. could break the news to the JWs ever so carefully. The focus and direction of the Special Meeting then must be changed, quickly!

    They had to do something quickly because 10s of thousands of people were beginning to find out that the WTS had been secret NGO with the DPI (Department of Public Information) of the UN for the past 10 years and the JWs would not have the scriptural reasons to explain such a strange phenomena.

    The spreading of this "secret liason" with the UN was sensational news! And when the "Guardian" broke the story around the time for the Special Meeting, Bethel was receiving phone calls from all over the world. In fact, a certain person by the name of "Truth1", 6 days before the big meeting, Bethel was inundated with phone calls leading up to that Special Meeting. For example a certain "Truth1" calls Bethel on October 1st, 2001, just before the meeting. He was trying to get more information from Bethel on the "news" that broke on the WTS NGO situation. Here is the conversation:

    "...Just FYI, I called the Society in New York. Spoke with a young brother in the Public Information department and I asked him about this yesterday. I was forced to do this by my family because they accused me of getting apostate information. I asked them would they listen if I called the Society. My mother said she wanted it to come from them and that even if it is true, she's not doing anything unless told by the Society because she is loyal to the organization. Anyway, when I talked with the young brother, he asked me for the web address and had a computer right in front of him. I walked him through to the DPI/NGO Directory from the very beginning of the UN Website. So, he saw it for himself. He said that he did not know they were listed there but he did admit the WTBTS is an NGO of other entities. He was SHOCKED. He told me I could call him back in the morning. I called him back this morning (10/02/01) he told me they were still researching this matter because they wanted to "look into how the application was filled out and how it was initiated". He said they would never have initiated such a thing."

    This brother tried all week long to find out what was happening. And the WTS was getting calls from everybody during that time and the people at headquarters front desk didn't know what to say about the "news" of the Governing Body's involvement with the UN. They were totally unprepared as to what to say about this situation. They only thing they could do was to be simply mute about the situation all that week leading up the big meeting. But right after the big meeting, we remember, what did the Governing Body do? Didn't they immediately REMOVE THEIR MEMBERSHIP (October 9th 2001) FROM THE UN? Action was taken the very next day.

    Now a year and half later, after everything as died down a little bit, what happens? This article in the June 1st appears. And begins to show exactly what the ex-District Overseer intimated on this discussion board about the contents of that meeting. This prove I believe, he was correct. His "inside" information was reliable.But, the Governing Body because of the outside pressures put upon them from the so-called apostates and the media, change their minds at the last minute and decided NOT to give JWs new real feelings about the UN organization.

    To back this up, someone by the name of "BibleExaminer" also brought this to our attention. It was just a few months before that big meeting that some very strange information was circulating among some brothers. This information I believe sheds some light on WHY the "new light" was necessary on the UN, from a scriptural point of view taken from Matthew 24th chapter.

    The Governing Body originally thought that this "new light" information would form the basis for making the change on the UN, in the little minds of rank and file JWs. And once that scriptural "new light" information could be established firmly in the minds of the rank and file, the Governing Body could finally, then tell the brothers that they HAVE BEEN NGOs associated with the DPI of the UN for the past 10 years and no one would condemn them or be the wiser. Slick huh!?!

    But the apostates spreading the news on and other discussion boards, and of course the "Guardian" news article changed all that.

    Notice the so-called "scriptural" basis "new light" information from a Circuit Overseer below, brought to our attention by "BibleExaminer", just a few months before the Big Special Meeting. He said:

    "...A "significant re-adjustment" in Watchtower dicta is in the works. Is it important? How so? If you do want to know, then take the time to read the following information, for doctrine is the motivation behind everything that is "Watchtower", and recent happenings within Watchtower-world shed light on the future course of the great ship Watchtower. ...

    ...So, it's no wonder that the Watchtower is going to change this self-contradictory nonsense by way of sermons given by COs instead of announcing it outright by way of their "channel" journal the Watchtower magazine. After the COs have made their rounds and given "new light" to congregations on a one-at -a-time basis, then the Watchtower can safely discuss Matthew chapter 24 with their new doctrine, and nobody will notice….So they thought! "

    Now, here was the main point "BibleExaminer" brought out for us:

    "...The CO is giving a talk that in summary says that the allegory of so many years is now GONE. He is teaching that there is no "second" and "greater" fulfillment of Matthew 24:15-16 but that it was fulfilled in complete in the first century, and ONLY UPON JEWRY."

    "BibleExaminer" shows it would be preferable on the Governing Body's part to have this type of information "circulated" by C.O.s first and not necessarily WRITTEN DOWN in publications, which as you know would be a permanent record for them, in case something went wrong and strong objections were raised against the newfound viewpoint. (If first written in the publications, the G.B. couldn't weasel out of it at the last minute, claiming the C.O.s "ran ahead" of them, and typically leave the C.O.s hanging out there by himself for teaching this, and pretend they never said anything about it in the first place. In other words, lie their way out of it, as they usually do when things get hot for them.) The G.B. perferred in this instance, with the sensitve issue of the "Scarlet Colored Wild Beast", that tey should "test the waters" first, to see if the "coast was clear". And then, after that and nobody protested much and thought the "new light" on Matthew was good, go ahead and give the big talk and speech at one of their big assemblies. Release the big news as real "NEW LIGHT" from Jehovah! That was the plan. But when the apostates broke "news" to everyone about the Secret UN AFFAIR and everyone was finding so quickly, all that had to change. The Special Meeting could not go as planned!

    So 1 1/2 years later, after that "NGO news" broke, what do we suddenly found out about the infamous UN organization? Why, just what you read in the June 1st of course. The "new light" of course. Jehovah's Witnesses would be SPECULATING if they said the UN was be responsible for an attack upon their organization. That would be speculating on their parts. Further, the scriptures do not indicate exactly who will attack God's People, just before Armageddon, which "beastly" organization will be used. Jehovah's Witnesses simply just can't say, scripturally speaking. That's the "New Light".

    So, it seems now we can see the June 1st information was exactly what the October 8th Meeting was all about. But the "scriptural" information, at the last minute, had to be CANNED. And the June 1st Watchtower seems to be finally giving us some of that "canned" information. The "coast" must be "clear."

    But when we go back and carefully consider the above comments of "BibleExaminer" and the Ex-District Overseer original comments, we see it was all a CALCULATED PLAN that went sour at the last minute. It was calculated all along to deceive the brothers about their secret liason with the UN and being secret NGOs for this hitherto, forbidden organization. And after some time had passed, the G.B.would slyly, gingerly going to lead all JWs up to "new light" about the UN. They planned all along to tell them that the UN no longer is believed to be a PART OF BIBLE PROPHECY. And for these reasons, they the Governing Body, no longer viewed the United Nations, the infamous forbidden, condemned Satanic organization as an organization TO BE AVOIDED.

    And of course, if anybody questioned their "decision" on the matter, even after reading the scriptural proof presented, the Governing Body would simply say: the real proof the UN was alright in God's eyes would be that they, the Governing Body had privately made the decision to become NGOs for the UN. And had been such for indeed, the past 10 years. And further the past 10 years gave positive evidence, to the Governing Body (by way of the growth of the JW Organization during those years) that Jehovah God Himself had not taken his spirit from the organization in all that time. In other words, they have 10 years of proof that it is a good a righteous "decision" on their parts. So, the organization's growth numbers would be the real "proof" for such a change. (Between 1991 - 2001 JWs grew from 4 mil. to 6 mil.) So the growth numbers of the organization since 1991 would be the "proof" that it must be all right with God and the UN was not so bad an organization, after all, scripturally speaking of course.

    Think about it.


  • ozziepost

    G'day bjc,

    Thank you very much for such a good read! It's good to bring back to mind what has taken place with the Borg in a historical sense. At times we are just like the news media in giving transitory attention to issues.

    Without pre-judging, I'd certainly recommend all thoughtful posters give the points you have reviewed some consideration.

    Cheers, Ozzie

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