New Light on the United Nations (U.N.) (Scarlet Beast)

by UnDisfellowshipped 126 Replies latest jw friends

  • bluesapphire

    All of this SPECULATION of ours could also mean something else .... something we aren't thinking about .....

    Perhaps they leave the UN out of this article so they wont be pinned as against the UN. Perhaps they are doing this just to show the UN that they are changing their doctrine. Maybe it's theocratic war strategy and the COs will verbally tell the r&f that the UN is still the beast.

    Just my thoughts.

  • dmouse

    You may have something there bluesapphire, I was thinking about this issue myself. That's maybe the spin they will put on this at first, the clue being in this part of the article:

    Who will these human agencies be? The Bible does not give us details, yet it does give us certain indications that can help us to identify who they will be.

    So COs will likely say that nothing has changed, the UN still looks the likely culprit at the moment (but things could change).

    Because nothing is in print now against the UN they may be able to enlist its help in the future.

    A very subtle move by the WBTS this; to protect themselves while at the same time starting to withdraw from an embarrassing prophetic failure.

  • GermanXJW

    Could it be that the article is not about the the UN-Wild Beast at all but that they again comment about their cluelessness about the King of the North?

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    Thanks for all your comments. I love reading all your great comments!

    OLD LIGHT about the United Nations ("Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast") attacking the Jehovah's Witnesses at the Final Battle of Armageddon [This is now officially "Speculation". That's funny, it didn't SOUND like "Speculation" when it was published in the Magazines!]:

    The Watchtower, May 15, 1980 Issue, Pages 25-26:

    13. As thus predicted, the nations that joined it gave first to the League of Nations and then to its successor, the United Nations, a deterring power in behalf of preserving world peace and security. Jehovah did not move them to do so, but, thinking ahead, he expressed his foreknowledge in his written Word. He has further foretold that those nations, in combine like a “congregation,” would tire of the burden of that international meddler in political affairs, the harlot Babylon the Great. When she is dumped off the back of that international peace-keeping body and finally burned with fire, the Christian witnesses of Jehovah will not be frightened by that “calamity” to her. From God’s Word they know that, on earth, they represent the heavenly “Lord of lords and King of kings,” Jesus Christ, and that, for this very reason, the victory-flushed conquerors of Babylon the Great will turn upon them as the last remaining obstacle to their exercising earth-wide domination. Jehovah’s Witnesses are given advance notice of that in this prophecy of Revelation 17:13, 14:

    14. “These [political elements represented in the United Nations] have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.”

    15. This military engagement means the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at the world situation called Har–Magedon. (Rev. 16:13-16) Under Jehovah’s protection his witnesses on earth will witness the “war” as described in Revelation 19:11-21. In a preview of this final clash over the issues of world domination, the Christian apostle John describes the outcome of the war, writing:

    16. “I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse [Jehovah’s field marshal, Jesus Christ] and with his army [of heavenly angels]. And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet [the Anglo-American World Power] that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image [the United Nations]. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds [mentioned in verses 17, 18] were filled from the fleshy parts of them.”

    The Watchtower, July 1, 1980 Issue, Pages 17-18:

    23. Till now Babylon the Great has ridden upon the League’s successor, the United Nations. But, shortly now, the political backers of the United Nations will tire of being dominated by the world empire of false religion and will dump her off and destroy her. Then, after the “watchman” calls out, “Babylon the Great has fallen,” they will turn, full force, against the surviving Christian witnesses of Jehovah. Here the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ, the “King of kings,” will step in and destroy the former backers of the U.N. in the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har–Magedon. Jehovah’s anointed “watchman” class and the “great crowd” that has responded to the information shouted out by that composite “watchman” will survive that final war under divine protection, for the vindication of Jehovah God as Sovereign of all heaven and earth.

    The Watchtower, January 15, 1981 Issue, Page 15:

    21. What follows the devastation of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion? The Scriptures indicate that the “ten horns” of the “beast” will turn against true religion, as represented on earth by Jehovah’s Witnesses. But when that happens, those nations will find themselves fighting against God at Armageddon! And Armageddon is not just a small corner in the land of Palestine. Rather, Armageddon is a worldwide situation that calls for vengeance in “the war of the great day of God the Almighty,” the greatest conflict of all time!—Rev. 16:14, 16; 17:12-14.

    Kingdom Come Book (Published in 1981), Pages 167-173:

    12. Despite God’s declared disapproval of the blasphemous U.N. beast, “Babylon the Great” seeks to have amorous relations with it. Yes, she is pictured as sitting like a queen atop the “wild beast”: “And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication.” Little marvel that John wrote of this situation: “Well, on catching sight of her I wondered with great wonderment”!—Revelation 17:4, 6.

    13. This liaison between the Babylonish world empire of false religion and the U.N. ‘peace and security beast’ turns out disastrously. Although the harlot-like “Babylon” may think that she sits pretty with that world body, God’s Word foretells something else for her:

    “And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16)

    A woeful end indeed for the world empire of false religion!

    14. The desolating of “Babylon the Great” will be swift.

    “In one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.” (Revelation 18:8)

    But there will be those who mourn her. These will not be the militaristic “ten horns” that treacherously turn upon her, but others among the political rulers who used to hobnob with the clergy for the sake of appearances, and to help cover up their shady practices. These will lament over her from a distance, for fear they may share her fate, saying:

    “Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!”—Revelation 18:9, 10.

    15. There will also be men of Big Business, gangsters and other racketeers, who have used their religious connections to cast a veneer of “holiness” over their corrupt dealings and to soothe their guilty consciences. These, too, will take up the refrain:

    “Too bad, too bad . . . , because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!” (Revelation 18:11-19)

    The costly cathedrals, the accumulated lands and wealth, the huge bank accounts and commercial investments of the world’s religion—all of these will have been laid waste.

    16. Hypocritical world religion, greedy commerce, corrupt politics—all three branches of Satan’s organization on earth are in line for the execution of Jehovah’s judgment. After false religion goes down, what next?


    17. Those radical political powers that devastate world religion have no eyes of spiritual understanding. They do not acknowledge the Messianic kingdom, established in 1914. Instead, they vigorously oppose those who proclaim that kingdom and who declare their Christian neutrality with regard to the politics and wars of worldly ‘kingdoms.’—Revelation 12:17; John 17:14, 16.

    18. After disposing of “Babylon the Great,” those beastly “horns” can be expected to make their final attack on the Christian witnesses of Jehovah, the apparently defenseless followers of the Lamb here on earth. (Ezekiel 38:14-16; Jeremiah 1:19) How will these foes make out in that warfare? The prophecy answers:

    “These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.” (Revelation 17:14)

    Though they take no part in that battle, the remaining ones of Jesus’ anointed followers on earth, along with their companions who have also answered the call to “sacred service,” will be preserved alive. Are you one of these who are praying even now for God’s kingdom to “come” at Armageddon?—Romans 12:1, 2; compare 2 Chronicles 20:5, 6, 12-17.

    19. Yes, you may be an eyewitness and a survivor of that catastrophic war at Armageddon. You may be an observer as the “King of kings,” accompanied by the angelic armies of heaven, fights in vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty. There you may see the climactic battle against wicked men, against proud nations and their mighty armies and the wealthy “merchants” that support them! Their multibillion-dollar nuclear arsenal will fail them in that warfare! Greedy profiteers, who have trafficked in oil and food supplies will find their ill-gotten gains valueless, as the world’s stock markets collapse and the value of gold as a means of deliverance plummets to zero. For “this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘A calamity, a unique calamity, look! it is coming. Into the streets they will throw their very silver, and an abhorrent thing their own gold will become. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them in the day of Jehovah’s fury. . . . and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’”—Ezekiel 7:5, 19, 27.

    20. In that day of Armageddon, you may find security, not in any material possession, but in standing firmly on the side of Jehovah and his “King of kings.” It will depend on your obedience to the prophet’s words:

    “Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.” (Zephaniah 2:3; see also Isaiah 26:20, 21; Daniel 12:1.)

    For at Armageddon, the King seated upon the symbolic white horse “judges and carries on war in righteousness.” While he ‘shepherds the nations with a rod of iron,’ to their destruction, he will bring the white-robed “great crowd” out of the “great tribulation,” shepherding them in love and ‘guiding them to fountains of waters of life.’ May you be one of these!—Revelation 19:11-16; 7:9, 14, 17.

    21. Alas for the U.N., its supportive governments and their amassed military might! Let them assemble at Armageddon “to wage the war with the one seated on the [white] horse and with his [heavenly] army”! All in vain! The “King of kings” hurls them, as it were, into a “fiery lake,” to their destruction. The remnants of Satan’s organization on earth are likewise liquidated, for the long sword of the King is powerful indeed, able to search out and destroy any enemy.—Revelation 19:17-21.

    22. By missiles and plagues dispatched from heaven, “Jehovah will scourge all the peoples” that fight in opposition to his kingdom, and, no doubt, in their confusion these will hurl their armaments of destruction against one another, for ‘the hand of each one will actually come up against the hand of his companion.’ But if you are one of those calling on the name of Jehovah, you “will get away safe.”—Joel 2:31, 32; Zechariah 14:3, 12, 13; Ezekiel 38:21-23; Jeremiah 25:31-33.

    23. That will be the grand climax of Jesus’ prophetic “sign”—“great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” How glad we can be that those days will be “cut short” for the sake of the “chosen ones”! You, too, may survive as one of the “sheep” whom Jesus invites to “inherit the kingdom”!—Matthew 24:21, 22; 25:33, 34.

    The Watchtower, September 15, 1982 Issue, Page 21:

    14. However, what of those who worship in the real “holy place”—those here on earth doing “sacred service” in support of the “heavenly Jerusalem”? These, too, will come under attack by militaristic “horns,” which even now make up part of the membership of the UN. According to Revelation 17:14, that political combine will demonstrate that it has no right to stand in “a holy place,” for it “will battle with the Lamb.”

    15. Daniel 11:40-45 shows that the Communistic “king of the north” will be prominent in this attack against the “holy ones,” but “he will have to come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.” Thus, all nationalistic “horns” and the “scarlet-colored wild beast” itself will be executed by Christ Jesus and his angelic armies. “Because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them.” There, at Armageddon, the reigning king of the “heavenly Jerusalem” will gain the decisive victory over all nations that have given “their power and authority to the wild beast.”—Revelation 17:12-14; 16:16.

    The Watchtower, May 1, 1983 Issue, Page 31:

    Revelation next explains the destruction of modern Babylon, which calls to mind ancient Babylon’s being a wellspring of false religion. The Babylon in Revelation is likened to a harlot riding upon a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads representing kings—an eighth king springing from the preceding seven. (This aptly depicts the League of Nations, replaced later by the UN—both of which have been made up of many nations.) An angel says that in time the beast’s militarized horns will battle with the Lamb. But first the 10 horns will turn on the harlot and destroy her. (17:1-18) Individuals are urged to get out of religious Babylon the Great before that happens. After she is destroyed, kings and merchants miss her, but heaven rejoices over her complete and final destruction. (18:1-24) God is to be praised for executing this judgment. It is especially a source of joy to the Lamb’s bride of “holy ones,” for she has proved victorious over the harlot.—19:1-10.

    Now the thread of the war of God and those who fight against the Lamb is taken up again and expanded. Opposed organizations and individuals meet their end. (19:11-21) ______________________________________

    The Watchtower, October 1, 1983 Issue, Pages 15-16:

    7. This symbolic “wild beast” of Revelation chapter 17, which is described as scarlet colored, is really a copy of the original “wild beast” spoken about in Revelation chapter 13. This scarlet-colored wild beast proves to be what is called “the image of the wild beast.” (Revelation 17:3; 13:14-18) Like its model, this “image of the wild beast” has seven heads, which have reference to “seven kings.” The five symbolic “kings” that had fallen symbolized the world powers of Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Medo-Persia and the Grecian Empire established by Alexander the Great. The sixth “king” was the Roman Empire of the apostle John’s day. The seventh “king” that was to come after John’s time has historically proved to be the Anglo-American World Power. And an eighth “king,” the scarlet-colored wild beast, as an “image” of the first wild beast, made its appearance in the first instance as the League of Nations.—Revelation 17:9-14.

    8. As regards “the ten horns” that are upon the seven heads of the scarlet-colored wild beast, they are interpreted to mean “ten kings,” that is to say, all the political rulerships that are represented in the United Nations organization. These “kings” will enjoy worldly prestige or authority for only a short time, as it were, “one hour.” That spells also only a further brief period of life for all those who wonder admiringly at the resurrected “image of the wild beast” and support it. Such ones do not have their names written upon “the scroll of life.” So those who do not want to die off our earth will not join them in worship of “the image of the wild beast.”

    9. Battle lines are now being drawn up. “The ten horns” are poised for attack. Revelation 17:14 says: “These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.” This indicates that the remnant yet alive on earth of such called, chosen and faithful ones will face attack by “the ten horns.” However, these “ten horns” will be conquered by the Lamb, which means that “the image of the wild beast” will “go off into destruction.” (Revelation 17:8) The promoters, admirers and supporters of that wild beast will also suffer destruction. Their names are not found written upon “the scroll of life.”

    10. Despite their now being few in number, the yet remaining ones of the called, chosen and faithful ones are not afraid. Even these few must yet prove faithful until Christ completes his conquest over “the image of the wild beast” and the wild beast itself along with all its worshipers on earth. That will be the end of this world! But even though the world ends, the human family goes on!

    The Watchtower, November 15, 1983 Issue, Page 23:

    God’s Vengeance Executed

    17. The prophecies of the Bible focus in on our day. They show us what lies immediately ahead. “For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4) The prophetic word depicts mankind’s ‘last hope for peace,’ the UN, as a scarlet-colored wild beast. Oh, it may trump up some kind of shaky peace and share in the cry “Peace and security!”—in harmony with its charter and in fulfillment of the prophecy at 1 Thessalonians 5:3. But then Jehovah will maneuver the militarized “horns” of the UN to devastate false religion, “Babylon the Great,” of which Christendom’s sects make up the most reprehensible part. Then, when those “horns” turn to do battle with the Lamb, Jesus Christ, by attacking the peace-loving witnesses of Jehovah, God’s sword of execution will descend on those nations and their armies, and “they will by no means escape.”—Revelation 17:3-6, 12-17.

    18. The nuclear armaments of the nations will provide them no protection during that “war of the great day of God the Almighty,” the battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 16:14, 16) If those weapons of mass horror are used at all, they will assist only in the nations’ destroying one another.

    The Watchtower, May 15, 1984 Issue, Page 6:

    Revelation 17:16 indicates that radical political elements within the United Nations (the “scarlet-colored wild beast”) will hate the religious harlot and devastate her. Already, powerful atheistic and antireligious elements in the UN have taken steps to stamp out religion within their domain. But more drastic action is expected in the near future when these political elements devastate not only Christendom but also the other great religious systems. Logically, the anti-God forces will also attack Jehovah’s Witnesses who faithfully proclaim God’s Kingdom. This will be tantamount to attacking God himself and will provoke retaliation—God’s war of Armageddon!—Revelation 17:3, 12-16; 16:14-16; Ezekiel 38:10-12, 18-23; Zechariah 2:8.

    The Watchtower, October 1, 1985 Issue, Pages 16-18:

    12. The United Nations does not enjoy good relations with God’s Kingdom. In fact, its supporters oppose that Kingdom. The angel told John: “[The ten horns] will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.” (Revelation 17:14) True to the prophecy, the nations have persistently ‘battled with the Lamb’ throughout this time of the end, opposing and persecuting those who act as ambassadors of his Kingdom. The Lamb, though, is unconquerable, and so are his servants on earth who continue preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom despite bannings, imprisonments, and even death.—Matthew 10:16-18; John 16:33; 1 John 5:4.


    15. Jesus said that the destruction of Christendom would be the start of a “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (Matthew 24:15, 21) As the tribulation continues, God’s Kingdom will execute judgment on all the political and commercial parts of Satan’s organization. (Daniel 2:44) John now sees the King in action: “I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness.” Ranged against him are the political nations of the earth along with the ‘image of the beast.’ The result of the war? Once again, destruction for the peace destroyers!—Revelation 19:11, 19-21.


    18. When will these earth-shaking events take place? Well, the “good news” is being heard around the world today. “The disgusting thing” is in place. (Matthew 24:14-16) In fact, the ‘image of the beast,’ already in the second stage of its existence, is now due to “go off into destruction.” (Revelation 17:8) The fulfillment of the “sign” shows that we have been living in the time of Jesus’ presence for 71 years, since 1914. (Matthew 24:3) Jesus said: “When you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:33, 34) Hence, the “great tribulation” must be very close. Can we be more precise than that? Not at this time.

    19. The apostle Paul foretold: “Whenever it is that they are saying: ‘Peace and security!’ then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) So the great tribulation will be a shocking surprise to mankind in general. It will not, however, be a shock for Christians. They know that it is coming, and they follow Jesus’ counsel: “Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur.”—Luke 21:36.

    20. Nevertheless, Christians cannot say in advance exactly when the great tribulation will strike. Jehovah has not revealed “that day or the hour.” (Mark 13:32; Matthew 24:42) Thus when, for example, the United Nations declares the year 1986 an “International Year of Peace,” Christians watch the event with interest. But they cannot say in advance whether this will prove to be the fulfillment of Paul’s words quoted above. They are, though, grateful that Jehovah has enabled them to discern the significance of the ‘image of the beast’ and “the disgusting thing that causes desolation.” Thus they see this organization the way Jehovah sees it and are not misled by its efforts to bring peace.

    The Watchtower, February 1, 1986 Issue, Page 7:

    During World War II, the Anglo-American world power worked hard to revive that international organization. In 1941 the prime minister of Great Britain, Winston Churchill, held secret talks with President Franklin Roosevelt of the United States on board a ship in the Atlantic ocean. They made a joint declaration about “their hopes for a better future for the world” and “the establishment of a wider and permanent system of general security.” The following year in Washington, D.C., 26 nations subscribed to this Anglo-American proposal in what was called the “Declaration by United Nations.” This led to the creation of the United Nations organization on October 24, 1945. The scarlet beast had ascended out of the abyss with a new name. At present, 159 nations have joined this organization, which, they hope, will perpetuate the now-existing system of human political rulership.

    All of this, however, leaves out of account the Messianic Kingdom of God, established in heaven in 1914. Every human on earth must choose between rulership by God and rulership by man. Soon, the scarlet beast, along with all human governments, will be involved in a battle with God’s installed King, Jesus Christ. The result? “Because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb [Jesus Christ] will conquer them.” Yes, the scarlet beast together with the entire system of human government will ‘go off into destruction.’—Revelation 17:11, 14; see also Daniel 2:44.

    The Watchtower, October 1, 1986 Issue, Page 20:

    20. In God’s Word, the course of the League of Nations and its successor, the United Nations, is likened to that of “a scarlet-colored wild beast” having seven heads (representing the world powers from which it originates) and ten horns (standing for the governmental powers that now support it). The Bible shows it to be a political “beast,” comparable to the British “lion” and the Russian “bear.” Upon its back there rides a woman, “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” (Revelation 17:3-8) This well expresses Jehovah’s view of false religion, which does not represent him and his righteous Kingdom. She commits spiritual harlotry by getting involved in politics. Religion’s linking up with the UN in the world’s campaign for peace and security is an example of this. She would also like to have peace and security from God’s judgment message proclaimed by Jehovah’s Witnesses. To this end, she has influenced some governments to ban the Christian activity of the Witnesses.—Psalm 2:1-3.

    21. How will “Jehovah’s day” break forth? In this darkest night of human history, it will indeed come “as a thief”! That will be when God maneuvers nations of the UN beast to turn suddenly on false religion. Displaying their underlying hatred for Babylon the Great, they will expose her for what she is and utterly devastate her. So swiftly will this execution come that former political paramours will exclaim: “Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!” But the nations and their armies will also attack God’s people. Then, the King of kings, Jesus Christ, will destroy all those enemies and abyss the arch-opposer, Satan the Devil.—Revelation 17:16, 17; 18:10; 19:11-21; 20:1-3; compare Ezekiel 38:11, 16, 18-23._______________________________________

    The Watchtower, September 1, 1987 Issue, Page 20:

    13. The United Nations is actually a worldly confederacy against Jehovah God and his dedicated Witnesses on earth. It is really a conspiracy, with the worldly nations getting their heads together and scheming up what they may do against the visible organization of Jehovah God on earth. During this “conclusion of the system of things,” it was foreshadowed by the conspiracy referred to at Isaiah 8:12.—Matthew 24:3._______________________________________

    Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! Book (Published in 1988), Pages 279-280, Chapter 39:

    With the desolating of Babylon the Great, the great tribulation will already have started. Then, urged on by Satan, the scarlet-colored wild beast and its ten horns will concentrate their attack on Jehovah’s people. The Devil, more wrathful than ever at God’s womanlike organization, is determined to use his dupes in waging war to a finish with the remaining ones of her seed. (Revelation 12:17) This is Satan’s last opportunity!

    2. The Devil’s vicious assault is vividly described in Ezekiel chapter 38. There, the debased Satan is called “Gog of the land of Magog.” Jehovah puts figurative hooks in Gog’s jaws, drawing him and his numerous military force to the attack. How does he do this? By causing Gog to see His witnesses as a defenseless people “gathered together out of the nations, one that is accumulating wealth and property, those who are dwelling in the center of the earth.” These hold the center stage on earth as the one people to have refused to worship the wild beast and its image. Their spiritual strength and prosperity enrage Gog. So Gog and his numerous military force, including the wild beast out of the sea with its ten horns, swarm in for the kill. Unlike Babylon the Great, however, God’s clean people enjoy divine protection!—Ezekiel 38:1, 4, 11, 12, 15; Revelation 13:1.

    3. How does Jehovah dispose of Gog and all his crowd? Listen! “‘I will call forth against him throughout all my mountainous region a sword,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘Against his own brother the sword of each one will come to be.’” But neither nuclear nor conventional arms will avail in that strife, for Jehovah declares: “I will bring myself into judgment with him, with pestilence and with blood; and a flooding downpour and hailstones, fire and sulphur I shall rain down upon him and upon his bands and upon the many peoples that will be with him. And I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.”—Ezekiel 38:21-23; 39:11; compare Joshua 10:8-14; Judges 7:19-22; 2 Chronicles 20:15, 22-24; Job 38:22, 23.

    The Watchtower, April 15, 1989 Issue, Pages 14-15:

    14. In due course, the “scarlet-colored wild beast” itself must go off into destruction. But before this happens, and even before its final beastly attack on God’s people, that UN beast has a special service to perform. Jehovah puts ‘his thought into the hearts of the wild beast and its militarized horns.’ With what result? God’s angel answers: “And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.”

    All Scripture Inspired Book (Published in 1990), Page 267:

    Look! It is God’s judgment upon “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots,” “with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication.” Drunk with the blood of the holy ones, she rides a scarlet-colored wild beast having seven heads and ten horns. This beast “was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss.” Its ten horns battle with the Lamb, but because he is “Lord of lords and King of kings,” he conquers them._______________________________________

    Isaiah's Prophecy - Light For All Mankind Book, Volume 1 (Published in 2000), Pages 153-154:

    20. Whom will Jehovah use to discipline rebellious Christendom? We find the answer in the 17th chapter of Revelation. There we are introduced to a harlot, “Babylon the Great,” representing all the world’s false religions, including Christendom. The harlot is riding a scarlet-colored wild beast that has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3, 5, 7-12) The wild beast represents the United Nations organization. Just as the ancient Assyrian destroyed Samaria, the scarlet-colored wild beast “will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of existence.

    21. Will Jehovah’s faithful Witnesses perish along with Babylon the Great? No. God is not displeased with them. Pure worship will survive. However, the wild beast that destroys Babylon the Great also casts a greedy eye in the direction of Jehovah’s people. In doing so, the beast carries out, not God’s thought, but the thought of someone else. Who? Satan the Devil.

    22. Jehovah exposes Satan’s prideful scheme: “It must occur in that day that things will come up into your [Satan’s] heart, and you will certainly think up an injurious scheme; and you must say: ‘I shall . . . come in upon those having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without [a protective] wall . . .’ It will be to get a big spoil and to do much plundering.” (Ezekiel 38:10-12) Satan will reason, ‘Yes, why not incite the nations to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses? They are vulnerable, unprotected, without political influence. They will offer no resistance. How easy it will be to pluck them like eggs from an unprotected nest!’

    NEW LIGHT about who will attack the Jehovah's Witnesses in the Final Battle at Armageddon:

    The Watchtower, June 1, 2003 Issue, Page 20:

    11. Gog of Magog is identified as Satan the Devil in his debased condition since 1914. As a spirit creature, he cannot carry out his attack directly, but will use human agencies to do his deeds. Who will these human agencies be? The Bible does not give us details, yet it does give us certain indications that can help us to identify who they will be. As world events unfold in fulfilment of Bible propecies, we gradually get an ever clearer picture. Jehovah's people avoid speculation but remain spiritually alert, fully aware of political and religious developments that fit into the framework of Bible prophecy.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    As I mentioned in an earlier, unrelated thread, it seems that rather than bringing understandings into greater focus, the ``advancing light" of Proverbs 4:18 seems to have led them in the opposite directipon -- away from the more dogmatic, specific allegation toward hazy ambiguity. The more prominent recent examples are the now-vague definition (since 1995) of ``this generation," the movement away from belief in 7,000-year creative days, and now this.

  • ARoarer

    The members are guilty of "speculation" again. Well where did this speculation come from anyway? Didn't the Mother WT prepare all that fine wholesome spiritual food for her childlike members to "feed" on at thier bookstudies when she force fed it to them telling them in effect you will die if you do not "swallow" this pure nourishment from Jehovah himself.? Is she now blaming them for obeying her and believing that the food is good for them and pure for comsuption.? Another Watchtower false doctrine being blamed on the poor R&F for seculating.

  • gcc2k

    Let me assume the adversarial position as usual.

    Let's assume that the WT did refine its doctrine here as new light. What's the benefit to the Society? Why would the average Witness come to see this as something sinister, and not just another refinement?

    Keeping in mind that the articles are written and slated for publication months in advance, why would the Society be doing this? It could be to get back in the UN's good graces and continue NGO status, but if that was their goal, they would not have request termination of their status, since it confirms that their former actions were wrong.

    I agree this is a big change, but most JWs will argue that it is not: "The Society is NOT saying that the UN isn't the beast, they are just saying that we can't know for sure."

    I remember studying the Revelation book and thinking how speculative it all was, and how I could have come up with a book that was just as good and made as much sense.

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    Wow, what a huge speculative mountain is being built on a mole hill of a few words. Y'all need to take a Valium or something.

  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim

    Alot of people have been viewing this discussion. GOOD!

    Now, it is safe to say that many JWs are a little concerned. You should be!

    Have any of you rank and file JWs stood up to the WatchTower Society and really TRIED TO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES or FALSE INFORMATION? Or have you just kept your mouth shut and turned away?

    Should you rank and file JWs share in the coming destruction because of your UNWILLINGNESS TO TAKE A MORAL AND DIGNIFIED STAND AGAINST THE OVERABUNDANCE OF "BS" WHICH FLOWS FROM THE SOCIETY?


    What have you done to help correct the problem? Are you scared?

    Keep watching World events, IT WILL get worse!

    Mr. KIM

  • Analysis

    Pork Chop said: "Wow, what a huge speculative mountain is being built on a mole hill of a few words. Y'all need to take a Valium or something."

    I agree that speculation about these simple few words is a bit extreme. But, in the 1960s and 1970s they would have taken 5 paragraphs to prove that the UN was the instrument of the Devil: That would attack and destroy Babylon the Great. The attack would extend to persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Great Tribulation. And now they say that we should not speculate on who the human agency will be!

    In my view the Attorney’s forced them stop referring to United Nations because it was causing them problems in the European Countries. I am waiting for the spoken adjustments that will be made by Circuit Overseers. This will be just like the initial change in view on voting.

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