My Memorial Experience-not so good

by wednesday 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • bebu

    Good question, Analysis. I haven't looked up other answers to this (you could always peruse the net and see what holds water the best), but here is my off-the-cuff, non-dogmatic thoughts.

    First, your verses:

    REV 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

    And here are two small verses that might shed a little light:

    1 COR 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? [3] Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

    EPH 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, [5] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. [6] And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, [7] in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

    As I see it, those OT and NT saints, along with believers thru the ages, are resurrected in order to vindicate God during the "millenium", conquering and ruling whatever good/bad folks might be here at this time. This, perhaps(?) is the particular end-time "perk" of a person's direct response to the Word of God.

    At the end of this "millenium", the rest of the dead are eventually raised in order to be judged by Christ, who judges all men's hearts. (Rev. 20:12)

    (The BIG question people usually have is, "Well, what about those guys who never heard...?! Do they get canned?" ...

    REV 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    NOTE: It doesn’t say that "all non-JWs/non-Christians/non-xyz’s are thrown in the lake of fire". Very interesting! It is obviously a deeper thing being judged. Personally, I don't think historical contact with Jesus/Judaism is absolutely necessary. I think that Christ's death opened the door for all folks, everywhere all through history, to have a chance to walk thru his door, if their heart was--as God can perfectly judge it

    --desiring righteousness, and loving compassion. Heaven is God's gift to those who want these things, because those who love goodness, kindness, and compassion love God.)

    bebu with 2 cents

  • outoftheorg

    I think Francois has a good point here. If it is a social setting that is acceptable to ones needs, that is wanted. My wife (never a jw) and I have been talking about attending a church. Not joining, but attending one for the social aspects and the the spiritual encouragement one may experience. We have an Episcopal church here in town we could try.

    But like Francois said, I believe it is really in ones mind and spirit that we develop a spiritual connection and thoughts.


  • Cicatrix


    I'm so sorry to hear that you had a "typical" Memorial experience. I know exactly what you mean by "nerve wrecking". Last year's Memorial was the last meeting I ever attended. I had a panic attack and had to leave right after it was over. I hadn't been feeling well for months before then, but I didn't put two and two together and realize that I was severely stressed from trying to live in a situation that I could never change.

    It doesn't change when you go to another congregation. It doesn't change when you "wait on Jehovah". It doesn't change when you exert yourself in service more, or pray more, or try to be a more submissive wife.For years, I would take little breaks away from my "healthy" spiritual routine. I would stay away long enough that I would start feeling better. Then I would go back and have the energy drained right back out of me again. It never occurred to me then that if I felt that way, that maybe it was the religion that was at fault and not me.

    I wish you and your husband peace.


  • Prisca
    He sincerely still believes that jehovah is God and jesus is his son and that most of what the jws teach is truth. however, he feels that people who claim to serve God, should welcome all.He comes from a small cong. in his youth that was close and he does not understnd the lack of closeness among our cong. he disagress with DF and shunning. he also feels the works the bible speaks of are more of helping other people , and giving of oneself-not peddling mags.In short, he feels jehovahs org has become corrupt and he thinks jehovah may have to correct it.

    I had very similar thoughts when I was still "in the Truth". I believed in the Bible and the basic premises of what Christ taught, although it troubled me when I would see un-Christlike behaviour of the brothers, or read ideas in the Watchtower that were simply not based on the Bible (like you'll never find the term "pioneer" in the Bible, nor the concept of pioneering with set quota of hours that a pioneer must reach). Yet, I still felt that it was Jehovah's organisation and that somehow He would fix things.

    However, I started to read the Bible on its own, and realised that some of the WT doctrines were not correct teachings. Like the doctrine about the 144,000. The New Testament makes it very clear that the heavenly hope is open to ALL Christians who accept Jesus' ransom sacrifice. That Jesus is the mediator for ALL Christians, not just for a select few.

    Then I found information on the internet that helped to put all the pieces together. Randy Watter's Freeminds site is an excellent site for JWs who still look at things from a Christian perspective. In time, I realised that WTS wasn't what I once believed it to be, and that it wasn't the one true religion, the only religion we can be a member of in order to be "saved".

    I think that Mr Wednesday is reaching a crossroad in his faith, and sooner or later he may see things for how they really are. The cold reception you received at last night's Memorial is only the beginning.

  • DJ

    Hi Wednesday,

    I didn't read any posts so forgive me if I am repeating something that someone else said. First of all, the type of people in the congregation should never matter. In James, he spoke about that. It is James 2 "My brothers, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a man in FILTHY clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "Sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand" or "Sit here at my footstool", Have you not shown partiality among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

    To the other question about the sheep....whoa! THe other sheep that come into the flock and have one shepherd (Jesus is the Good Shepherd) are the gentiles. The gospel (good news) was given to first the Jew and then.....the Greek. We become one flock under Christ. You know, it's funny...the Mormoms went off half cocked with some wacky explanation for the other sheep. Oh, I remember what....they say that Jesus came to America in the 1800's? so, the Americans are the other sheep. This saying of "other sheep" is not a mystery. It is a conclusion that a child would reach when you just stick with the bible and prayer ONLY. Also the word [other] that the NWT has in their bible in Collosians and Philippians and elsewhere are just inserted with brackets because they never ever appeared in the original Greek. In the front of the NWT is says that the brackets with words are inserted to complete the sense. That blew me away when I read that because they do NOT complete the sense.....they change the meaning! We are taught that we have ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE HOPE. one, not 2 not an earthy hope or a heavenly hope. I can't make the red In Rev.7 where it speaks of the great it for yourself, it is not something happening on the earth. They are before the THRONE. There are angels there. They are before the throne day and night. read it: Rev.7:9-17. Nowhere does it say that they are on earth anymore. If you read it also from Rev.7:1-8 it sounds as if the 144,000 are the ones who are on the earth being sealed.

    Religions are supposed to help us find God. Jesus said to come to him. He said that searching the sritures will not give us eternal life. He said to come to HIM. Matt 11:25-30. Pull out that bible and see, don't be frightened to do what he asks. He is the first and the last. Rev.1:17-18. Jehovah is the First and the Last too in Isaiah. How do you suppose ther could be two first and lasts? I Could go on for days but I will cut you some slack beause you have enough to swallow for now. Your husband will never find his happiness in a building. The temple is our body in which the holy spirit can dwell in us. This is true. Love, dj

  • peacefulpete

    I know this is derailing the thread a bit but it is another piece of info to share. The thousand year piece in Rev. was pulled from prechristian Rabbinic writings. They asserted that a 1000 year long "age of the Messiah" would preceed the "kingdom of God".While there was many and varied ideas about what would occur during this 1000 years at least one school was that the prophets and faithful elite would preceed the "rest" of the dead who would not be raised until as REv says at the end of the 1000 years. Given that thse novel doctrines are not found in any other Cannonical Bible book it must be recognized that the Author of Rev. was not inspired he was simply adaping current Jewish thought with Gnosticism. The "second Death" is also a Rabbinic teaching from this prechristian period.

  • nightwarrior


    Its not surprising that fake christians treat others in this way.

    Just reflect on the way that JESUS TREATED OTHERS .

    Do you think he would welcome the rich man above a honest man NO NEVER.

    Most fake christians put money and position before there service to god, dont the scriptures condem storing up treasures etc etc.a true christian would give all there wealth away to the poor ,then they could start following in jesus footsteps , how many are strong enough to do this,

    As far as you being better of with the other congregation of mexicans hispanics, you wanna know something ,you probably would have been received with a more loving spirit i can allso see jesus s spirit withion the ranks of the poor rather than the rich ,THATS IF IT WERE THE TRUTH, But unfortunatly there actions towards your husband dont show true christian qualitys ,they are leanings and traits from wordly men, USE THIS REASON TO LEAVE THE BORG,AS THINGS WILL ONLY GET WORSE. Invite your husband to this board and let him decide his choices.


  • QuiteVoice

    Hello all...

    Just wanted to comment on the original posting...

    I am very sorry about the bad experience you had at the last memorial service. It is upsetting me to hear that your husband had a terrible experience on Wednesday night. That is not supposed to happen. The memorial service is being held every year to remember what Jehovah God and Jesus Christ did for all of us and be thankful for the unbelievable love that they showed to us human beings. Of course people gather together for the service and thats where problems can arrise. But you have to remember that people are people and things can go wrong when different kind of people are involved. I can assure you that there are many good people among JW but also there are people that will upset you and bring you down sometimes. The most important thing is the relationship between you and Jehovah. But he also commands us to be involved with a congregation and love one another.

    People sure are influenced by their social status and sometimes it is difficult to see how they behave(while they are really nothing... in the eyes of Jehovah)

    Just remember that for us to succeed in this fight for life(True Happiness), do not be mislead by people who are being lead by satan and do not bring yourself down because of some people who do not know any better(we are all imperfect). Look at all the things that are happening in this world right now. All these things were predicted in the words of the bible. People say... "when will this end..?" "this has been happening for so long and there is no answer..." But remember how long Noah had to wait for the flood. He spent his whole life building the ark and finally it rained.

    Hold on tight. Jesus said this road is not easy to walk on. Look what Jesus had to go through. Look how people treated Jesus. They actually killed Jehovah's own son. Jesus told his followers that people will hate you just as they hated me. What other religion do you know that people hate so much and make fun of other than Jehovahs Witnesses? What other religion goes door to door and preach the good news of the bible other than the Jehovahs Witnesses?

    Dont let yourself go down because of some other people that are acting foolish. And remember that not everyone will be given the everlasting life on this earth.

  • mattnoel

    Wednesday - I am sorry to hear about your bad experience - Can you feel the love ?

    Maybe this is telling you something - put it all behind you, this is your closure and this is your proof, now get on with your life and be happy, you are away from it now so you can put the witnesses behind you. Dont get to the day you die and think "Damn I wish I had put all that behind me and not wasted my life with those people" like so many will.

    X X

  • cruzanheart

    Welcome to the forum, QuiteVoice! I hope you enjoy your time here. I do think that you would benefit by reading more of the posts in this forum so you can gain a deeper understanding of what a lot of us have gone through with Jehovah's Witnesses. You said:

    people are people and things can go wrong when different kind of people are involved

    That is a very simplistic explanation for an organization-wide problem. I tried to tell myself that too, but then the sheer weight of numbers overwhelmed me. It became harder and harder to find the "nice" ones. Ask yourself this: if Jehovah's chosen people, the Israelites, became corrupt, and if the first century Christian congregation, started by Jesus himself, became corrupt, why would it not be possible for the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses to similarly become corrupt?

    I was raised Jehovah's Witness, daughter of an elder, pioneer for 13 years, and I am not just talking off the top of my head. I've seen enough to feel that this is NOT where Jehovah is, and I will not go back. If I had lived in Israelite times, during the bad kings who were sacrificing children to Molek, would I have been foolish enough to "go to the meeting" (i.e., the temple) with my children and take the risk of them being snatched and killed? Of course not! Similarly, I will not take my children to a Kingdom Hall where child abuse is covered up and the victims threatened with spiritual death if they bring it to light.

    So, happy reading, and I hope you will do so with an open mind.


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