'You didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!'

by William Penwell 148 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Simon

  Hmmm. Charlie, are you saying we should have helped them out 12 years ago, but today, you take a stance of not helping them out?

  Why was nothing done to help them in any of the last 12 years? Why make things even worse for them with cruel sanctions and only start taking action when real progress was being made with the inspection programme? These are the sort of things that make me question what I'm told as to the motives for going to war.

  If the war was being fought to liberate the Iraqi people as they claim then I think it's wonderful. However, I am very, very skeptical based on past history and the attempts to fabricate evidence of WoMD. The whole "we're doing it for the people" just comes across as being an excuse that most people would buy and that they could use to further their agenda.

  Time will tell.
• 

  tyydyy

  Simon,

  Good point. I have always disagreed with the US policy of Sanctions. The idea is that the people will get pissed at their own government because of the sanctions and overthrow it. It worked in the cold war but then that was a country that has never tolerated failing government regimes. It hasn't worked in Cuba and it's been going on for 50 yrs. I don't think it shows and ulterior motive ...........just a stupid policy.

  TimB
• 

  Simon

  tyydyy: You seem to be suggesting that the Iraqi's are cowards for not rising up and fighting against Saddam? Comparing a long oppressed people to Americans is more that a little unfair.

  We have to remember that simply surviving may be the best that some people can do. Just as it took time for a mass change to overwhelm Eastern germany and Russia, both of which were oppressed for far longer than 'Saddam's Iraq', so it would take the Iraqi's time to do it on their own.

  As for this whole "Americans fought against oppression" LOL You again need to look into history more closely and without the spin put on things. The rich colonial land-owners didn't want to pay TAXES. It was not about oppression at all - the slaves and people who they rules over were as oppressed by them as they were by the British. This oppression didn't go away when the British did.

  "One nation, free from Tyranny" ... was more propaganda than reality.
• 

  Simon

  The idea is that the people will get pissed at their own government because of the sanctions and overthrow it. It worked in the cold war but then that was a country that has never tolerated failing government regimes. It hasn't worked in Cuba and it's been going on for 50 yrs. I don't think it shows and ulterior motive ...........just a stupid policy

  I think it's an incredibly dumb policy too and just breeds an incredible amount of resentment towards the western countries responsible.

  How would I feel if my kids died because some other country was blocking shipments of childrens medicines for instance?

  The problem is that while sanctions are enforced for things that the suffering people need, the things that do need to be stopped are bypassed and worm their way around all the red tape (look at haliburton's shennanegans)

  Instead of *not* giving aid, I think more aid should be given on projects that directly help the people. Imagine turning up and building a water treatment plant or something else that gives us no benefit but helps them?

  The strange thing is ... I think that would give us the most benefit of all ...
• 

  BeautifulGarbage

  Resources are not what's missing with the Iraqis. Do you think you can just buy a war? It doesn't work that way.

  No, Tim, I don't think that one can just "buy" a war. However, the financing of wars is a very expensive business. I'm all for bravery and noble causes. Yet, the manufacturers of arms expect payment and those with the cash get the guns.

  Speaking of Ben Franklin soliciting support from France...........What makes you think that there weren't some important Iraqis trying to get help from the US and UK? Maybe they succeeded. Maybe there was someone over there using his head. Hmmmmmm

  
  Maybe, maybe not. Again, pure conjecture. Whereas what happened with Franklin is FACT.

  Bye thread.

  Andee
  
• 

  ballistic

  Surely saying any nationality of people are a certian way is racist? yes? no?
• 

  teejay

  When it comes to our countrymen versus another countries population the difference may be microscopic but I would have to say that, Yes, American's lives are worth more.

  Tim,

  Although I understand the sentiment, it was still a bit disturbing for an American to come right out and say and for me to read. I think it's from thoughts like those that atrocities spring. IMO, American life is not worth one bit more than any other life... my daughter's being the one exception.
• 

  tyydyy

  Sorry Teej,

  I have to call you on that one. If your daughter's life is of even a little more value then it only stands to reason that your friend's life is worth just a little bit less. You neighbor's life just a little less. Your fellow countryman regardless of where he lives has got to, simply by association, be worth a little more than someone from another country. If you stood 2 strangers side by side, one american and one chinese, and told to choose which one you wanted to live and you could only choose one......... That would be a tough decision, no doubt, but everything else being equal, the scales would be tipped by the one who had association with you. That's a simple fact of human nature. That's why the LA Clippers have fans.

  TimB
• 

  tyydyy

  Ballistic,

  Actually saying a certain RACE of people were a certain way is RACIST. I think it IS fair to evaluate the actions of a country as a whole. It would be impossible to do a opinion poll in Iraq right now. I can't speak to every individual in Iraq. Sorry.

  TimB
• 

  tyydyy

  Andee,
  

  I'm sorry if I sounded agitated earlier. That wasn't my intention. I do like to debate the serious subjects and I like to examine my own views in the process. I appreciate your views and they do have validity. I just draw different conclusions.

  That being said:

  Actually it is a fact that some high level Iraqis have asked for help to rid the country of Saddam. They have written books and spoken publicly about the dangers of allowing the dictator to stay in power.

  .

  TimB