Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason 277 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sanchy

  Scholar wrote: "Daniel's interpretation of the tree vision centres around what happened to Nebuchadnezzer and to God's rulership so both are related to each other."

  Daniel's interpretation of the dream is written in Daniel 4. Anyting else added to this equation are a product of your biases creating assumptions.

  Scholar wrote: "The expression 'times' in Daniel 4 and Luke 21:24 is exegetically significant"

  This is the most ridiculous and laughable of your attempts to excuse your injected secondary interpretation of Dan 4. The term "kairos" is used over 80 times in the NT alone. You are grasping at straws with this argument.

  You can keep repeating a false statement over and over, but it's still false. As I've mentioned 100x now, there is no reason to claim that the vision of Dan 4 is connected to Jeremiah's 70 years nor Luke 21. You can keep trying, but you will continue failing to create a connection.
  
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  scholar

  MeanMrMustard

  Jer,25:11 certainly refers to other nations who also are brought into servitude to Babylon but only for Judah that had to serve Babylon for a predetermined period of 70 years. After the 70 ended for Judah then as stated in vs 12 Babylon was to experience her judgement. The Babylonian rule or domination of Judah was to last for 70 years beginning in 607 BCE and ending in 537BCE.

  scholar
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  scholar

  Sanchy

  Daniel's interpretation of the tree dream is recorded in the 4th chapter along with a discussion of God.s Kingdom also in that same chapter.' The use of kairos is always significant for exegesis for ignoring it leads to a false interpretation and a failure to get the correct interpretation of the seven times in Daniel and the Times of the Gentiles in Luke.

  I have never said that Dan 4 is connected to the 70 years but the only thing that these two periods of time have in common is both began in 607BCE with the Fall and that is simply amazing as Jehovah God is truly the Revealer of secrets.

  scholar
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  Finkelstein

  People please .....

  
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  Sanchy

  Scholar wrote: "The use of kairos is always significant for exegesis for ignoring it leads to a false interpretation and a failure to get the correct interpretation of the seven times in Daniel and the Times of the Gentiles in Luke."

  A) Only in your mind is the shared use of "kairos" between these passages exegetically important. In real life, it is not. As I already said, the term appears over 80 times in the New Testament alone.

  B) The "correct" interpretation for the dream in Daniel ch 4 is already completely outlined for us within the same chapter, no extra interpretations needed. The "Gentile Times" passage is separate and unconnected.

  Scholar said: "I have never said that Dan 4 is connected to the 70 years"

  You might have not said it, but you imply is with your forced math, as your belief is that the "second greater" interpretations of Dan 4 begins at the end of Jeremiah's 70 weeks; thus, according to your own made up formula, the two are intrinsically connected.

  I'lll repeat myself again:

  1) There is no second interpretation to Daniel chapter 4, except through eisegesis.

  2) There is no prophetic connection between Daniel ch 4 and Luke 21, except through eisegesis.
• 

  cha ching

  What DO WT publications say? (in very, very tiny print, hoping you don't notice)

  In it's infamous Oct & Nov 2011 WT articles page 24 (after explaining on page 23 that business tablets from the Babylonian era "were dated to the day, the month and the year of the reigning king.") column two underneath the 3rd paragraph

  "Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totalled, and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 BCE"

  Bam!

  We don't need to look at cracked stones written 200 years later, ask stupid questions of "what if".... We have documents for alllllll the years during Babylon's reign.

  Thank you, WT, you set me free!
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  RubaDub

  When we finally have the answer, we can then move on to the next topic of whether the leading edge of Ezekiel's Wheel within a Wheel was turning clockwise or counter-clockwise.

  Rub a Dub
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  Finkelstein

  The WTS's endeavor to mix up bible theology to support the date setting doctrine of 1914 is what the religious publishing house devised and sold to the public through its published literature.

  This organization once used the fallacious theology of Pyramidology to calculate 1914 and the said leader at the time called himself the Faithful Slave.

  This date setting is in fact an act of apostasy according to Jesus and his words but these men went ahead anyways with disrespect and a lack of loyalty to god and his son.

  Another act of doctrinal deception was it calculation of mankind's existence of 6000 years, which the organization used and propagated 3 separate different times starting from the early 1900's .
  

  So one can see the WTS has a acumen of deception and corruption within its core professed doctrines going right back to its early beginning.
  
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  MeanMrMustard

  MeanMrMustard Jer 25:11 certainly refers to other nations who also are brought into servitude to Babylon but only for Judah that had to serve Babylon for a predetermined period of 70 years. After the 70 ended for Judah then as stated in vs 12 Babylon was to experience her judgement. The Babylonian rule or domination of Judah was to last for 70 years beginning in 607 BCE and ending in 537BCE.

  Pffft lol. That is some top notch trollery.

  For the sake of lurkers and the like: Notice 25:11 literally says, with no ambiguity, regardless of translation used, that “these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” It does not say Judah is captive for seventy years. It does not say Judah will serve Babylon for seventy years. It says “these nations”... the ones that were explicitly listed at the beginning of the chapter. There’s no interpreting to do, nothing. Just a plain, simple statement.
  

  25:12 is also simple. It has an order of events. First, the seventy years ends. Next, Babylon is held to account. Since Babylon was held to account in 539 BC, the seventy years ended sometime before 539. Now, I guess you could say it ended the moment just before Babylon fell - whatever that means. But one thing you can’t say is that the seventy years “for Babylon” ended in 537.
  

  This upsets WT chronology immediately. No need to debate about tablets.
  

  There is no need to force any other date for the fall of Jerusalem. 587 BC works just fine, no contradictions.
  

  
  
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  scholar

  Sanchy

  You should do some research into the theology of the use of kairos both in the NT and the LXX as required of any decent exegete. You can start with Kittels' TDNT.

  The correct interpretation indeed is found in that same chapter and therein you have both a literal and figurative application as nicely presented in WT publications.

  it is a beautiful thing to learn that both the seventy years of Jeremiah and the beginning of the Gentile Times of Dr. Luke or the Danielic's 'seven times' began in the same year , 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem!!!!!

  You are obsessed with eisegesis rather than exegesis so you should commit to exegesis of Dan.4 first then see if there is a proper place for eisegesis and I would sy that the latter is unnecessary.

  scholar