^^^LOL
Does the WTS have a clergy class (yes-no)
by blondie 46 Replies latest jw friends
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LV101
Recall Ray Franz indicated in COC they emulate the Catholic church's hierarchy but profess otherwise, of course. It's quite a pecking order and obvious in each congregation.
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Beth Sarim
Joe...our friend has just uploaded a video on his channel Ex watchtower yes man on this very pecking order subject.
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Konagirl
"In contrast, true worshippers of Jehovah have no clergy."
“Clergy” - c. 1200, "man ordained in the ministry, a priest, an ecclesiastic," from Old English cleric and Old French clerc "clergyman, priest; scholar, student," both from Church Latin clericus "a priest," noun use of adjective meaning "priestly, belonging to the clerus"
So, this is the thing that I’ve noticed. The anointed, and yes there are genuine anointed in the organization, are priests. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10) But the doctrine of men says they must not act as priests until after Armageddon. The apostle Paul stated that he was a priest, and he was certainly “active”.
“Nevertheless, I have written to remind you more boldly on some points] because of the grace given me by God 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest of the gospel of God. God’s purpose is that the Gentiles may be an acceptable offering, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” Rom 15:15,16
So, an active genuine priesthood ended with the advent of the organization. Well then, does the elder body act as priests?
Mal 2:7 – “For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should desire instruction from his mouth, because he is the messenger of the Lord of Armies.”
Sure they do, except they are counterfeit priests acting on behalf of an organization. They guard its knowledge, they instruct the congregations, and they are the messengers for the organization.
They say this: “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth.” Wt 02/8/1
If they are “representing” the anointed, aren’t they active? This appointment is all bogus, but real. The elders have gone so far as not only acting as a priesthood, but as judges of the “royal priesthood”. And this priesthood of anointed “living stones” are the temple dwelling of God’s Holy Spirit. 1 Pet 2:5, 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Mark 13:14; 1 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2
“If any of you has a dispute against another, how dare you take it to court before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the trivial cases? 3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels—how much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have such matters, do you appoint as your judges those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame! Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who is able to arbitrate between fellow believers?” 1 Cor 6
But the organization has other ideas.
Wt 02/8/1 - “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”
That's a pretty arrogant statement. I do believe that the apostle Paul would certainly challenge the elder body’s bogus authority, just as all genuine anointed ones should as well. This statement is like a slap in the face to the anointed ones.
“In fact, you put up with it if someone enslaves you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone is arrogant toward you, if someone slaps you in the face.” 2 Cor 11:20
The organization has made it very clear that the anointed are to remain silent. Why? Because if the genuine priesthood was active as a body (Eph 4:4), and faithfully serving God under their High Priest, Jesus Christ by offering sacrifices of praise in truth (1 John 2:27; Heb 13:25), there would be a great conflict of interest. Why else would the Wt. even mention that the elders “authority” cannot be challenged? (Rev 13:5-7) Active and faithful priests under Jesus Christ, would not allow the doctrine of men to be taught; instead, they would be teaching all that Jesus commanded them. (Matt 28:20) Only Christ’s teachings, the word of God, would be on their lips; and ultimately the power of not only the elder body, but also the governing body would dissolve. (Matt 24:48-51) An “organization” built by men and all of the doctrine needed to keep it up and running, would not exist. As Jesus stated, we are to worship the Father in spirit and truth, not in a physical “mountainlike organization”. (John 4:21-24; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 4:6-10; Isa 2:1-3)
So yeah, the Watchtower does have a clergy, a massive “priesthood” of elders worldwide that are too arrogant (or blindly ignorant) to realize that God would never condone the replacing of His appointed priests. (Ezek 44:6-9)
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FedUpJW
To me it seems the religion wants the luxury of having it both ways.
This, 100%!
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Longlivetherenegades
They can choose to deny and lie about it. According to Websters dictionary
CLERGY is a group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church.
No single elder in the world of Jehovah's Witnesses will ever get to that position of elder, C.O, D.O, Branch committees and finally GB except ordained or called to perform such function.
They cannot all be called brothers since publishers cannot carry out shepherding calls on elders in their midst or fellow publishers in their midst.
The work of shepherding the flock is an ordained function of the elder a position higher than the LAITY (ordinary publishers).
I for one told the C.O and the secretary that I don't want anyone to announce me as an elder that I will rather be approached by other members who deem it fit as being one not based on someone going up to announce to every other member of the congregation that I am now appointed as an elder.
The C.O told me he has to follow the process and procedures and today the rest is history. Announcement made regarding such appointment is the ORDINATION they deny they don't do.
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Longlivetherenegades
@ Fisherman
Define clergy based on the Jehovah’s witnesses dictionary.
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Longlivetherenegades
Yes they do have a CLERGY CLASS here is one evidence as captured in their manuals
Elders should be very careful not to divulge confidential matters.If an elder reveals the “confidential talk” of those in the congregation, he would lose their trust and ruin his reputation. (Prov.11:13)
When a son and publisher in the congregation disclose a sin he committed in a confidential talk to his father who is also a publisher in the congregation. Do the organization allow such CONFIDENTIALITY?
If no is the answer, can it be said Jehovah’s witnesses don't have a CLERGY CLASS? Is the keeping of confidential talk open to every member of the congregation or the clergy class aka elders, C. O, D. O e.t.c
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blondie
LonglivetheRenegades, yes that is one of the points discussed in the legal case of child sexual abuse, if the elders share this with other elders, they do, and if they share the info with the headquarters in NY, they do, and then there is all the unofficial revealing of things by elders to other elders (should be only the elders on the judicial committee know the details), other elders in other congregations and "not saying the person's name) but giving so much detail the elders know who they are talking about, and the elders who tell their wives (children listening in on the phone or reading confidential info kept at an elder's home not securely), and wives who only tell their best friend, and that best friend tells her best friend (not the wife who told her), and of course those who want to be in the know and add info to the story to titillate other jws. Complicated, I wish they person would just get up on the stage and tell their story.
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vienne
Of course they have a clergy. Elders, Deacons, Bishops, etc. Except they call them Elders, Ministerial Servants, and Circuit Overseers.
And IF you think they're all on a equal footing, attend a regional convention or circuit overseer's visit and listen to the introductions.