If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong! (page 4)

Finkelstein

Apparently Venus belongs to this religious system of belief and its systematic mathematical calculations.

jp1692

My conception of math teachers allows them to make mistakes without me concluding they do not exist.

My conception of “god” does not allow the same tolerance for error.

jws

OK, so none of the world religions have it right? So then why exactly are you so sure there's a God?

There are an infinite amount of possible gods you could suggest. But with no evidence, what proof do you have to claim that one exists?

Certainly things like the books of the big 3 (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) all have demonstrable flaws. So obviously those weren't written by anybody more superior than ancient men. So if there is a god, it's not THAT one. Some ancient Roman or Greek god?

If you can't even define or tell us more about it, how can you be so naive as to worship it? How do you even know what it wants?

Insanity.

jws

Venus wrote:

God’s non existence cannot be proved because we are all flooded with products, machines, tools, gadgets …. all of which primarily prove someone designed them. If every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not).
Even if someone creates a human being in a laboratory taking 94 elements and life-force under the live-telecast all over the world, and explains to us what went into his making this human being, it would still primarily prove he is the designer, and the product is the result of his design.

And yet, you're going to be so bold as to what, tell me that there's some creator that created and engineered matter, created the vastness of the universe, created and engineered all of the life on earth? Seriously? Either apply this argument to your god or don't make it.

Somehow God came into being via what? By your argument, surely God must have a creator. Surely there must be a designer of this God. And who's the designer of God's God? And the god before that? Ad infnitum...

Things like evolution make a lot more sense than a "God". We don't know exactly how life began. But that mystery doesn't mean we have to invent a god to do it. However it started, it started off small. And through millions of generations, changes created different species, some gaining intelligence along the journey. On the other hand, you're expecting us to accept a "God" that has always been and is a genius beyond compare. A magician that can just bring things into being. Nothing he can't do. And yet you have no problem accepting that? It wasn't that he gained intelligence over time from one generation of "gods" to the next or even in learning from others. He was from the start, the smartest thing ever.

And that's rational? And it sounds like you somewhat believe in these old books. That's like 2000 years from now, somebody finds a stash of Superman comics and proclaim him as a god. And they worship the "Holy duality" the 2 gods in one: of the Superman god-man who came to earth as one of us, Clark Kent, to live life as one of the people he created and better understand them. While fighting off the demons like Lex Luthor, et al.

Finkelstein

One thing that is a indefensible truth is that all god(s) were derived out of human ignorance of the world in which we live. The more we learn of the reality of the physical world including of ourselves , the better we can make the human experience.

Humanity doesn't need the power of the gods any more or the social directions laid out by ancient civilizations.

........ We have knowledge now

LoveUniHateExams

Religions sell God to people like you and me. God is their product and the price they demand in exchange for it can be our money, our time, our lives and our devotion.

A used car salesman sells second hand cars.

If the salesman was utterly incompetent or dishonest, would you assume that he may be bad but his car is 100% fine?

jwundubbed

I am prefacing my comment with the fact that I am not an atheist. I believe in God. I also believe that God doesn't exist and you can't prove me wrong on either account because you have no proof either way. Personally, I believe what I believe and you can disagree with me, you can dislike my beliefs, but you can't change them and you can't prove me wrong. It's belief, not fact.

The premise is that the people teaching 'God' are wrong but God still exists. And you are absolutely right, in a sense. When we believe in things we make them real. We have a concept of something which cannot be proven and people believe the concept. Thus, yes. God is real.

As are Santa, dragons, magic, and many other things that a mass of people believe in, but for which there is no physical proof. They also exist because people believe in them. There is no point in trying to convince people who don't believe in them that they do exist. There is no proof and people who believe don't need proof.

I think a better question is why are you trying to convince people that you are right and they are wrong? Who cares that much what other people think about something that has zero impact on our lives. It is a supremely moot argument. Believe, don't believe. Noodles, no noodles. It's all the same in the grands scheme of things.

steve2

I think a better question is why are you trying to convince people that you are right and they are wrong?

Good points made in your response dubstepped. I trust it is aimed primarily at the OP rather than others' responses.

I don't give a tinker's cuss whether or not people believe in God/Supreme Being but exchanges on the topic can be illuminating.

I do care when religious people have the audacity to tell me why I am an atheist and liken it to 'jumping into a bottomless pit of atheism" (to quote the OP).

It is not so much my wanting to convince them I am right and they are wrong - but more a case of, "Don't presume to know what lies behind my atheism".

Boredposter

Venus,

I like that you pose questions like this. I think it makes people think.

Personally, I like the way Joseph Campbell talks about how different views of God are like "masks". We have many, many religions and doctrines. Also, many personal views about what/who God is. Obviously they cannot all be right. (People make their biggest mistakes fighting over their views on this). They are simply man's attempt to describe "the ground of being". They point to which is greater than ourselves. The reality of God is much grander than whatever we can imagine. Can we prove God exists in a tangible way? In a way that involves touching and feeling? No, of course not. Does that mean an immaterial God does not exist? I don't think so. Can we experience God? I believe we can.

Can math be a pointer to a "great mind"? I believe it can and does.

snare&racket

Terrible analogy in OP.

That being said, you have to prove math exists before you can even discuss the merits of a teacher discussing it.

Math has been proven to exist, god has not.

We can identify that a math teacher is flawed as the math result can’t be questioned. The answer to a math question will never change. Not only have you not got evidence of a god, you certainly don’t have all the parameters of a god set to a level of confidence comparable to a math answer, so you don’t have the means to judge a religions views on god.

The analogy is flawed and doesn’t fit. It is also unnecessary, the topic can be discussed without an analogy. You state that religions are misrepresenting god. That’s a huge claim. First prove a god exists, then do tell us how you know the blueprint for representing god and how you came to know it, so as to be a able to judge others as misrepresenting him.

it may be no surprise to you to hear that we are atheists because..... like us you too don’t have the means to do either. Stop pretending you KNOW something you can’t prove. Be humble and honest and admit we don’t know but you choose to believe. As atheists/agnostics we stick to what is evidential alone, just a you do with the god Thor or Zeus! We just include Yaweh

If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!

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