What if the US loses?

by Robdar 97 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Prisca

  1. If the events of 9/11 is the 'gist' of this whole thing, as many, including some here, wish to claim, Iraq, which is NOT allied with Al-Qaieda, is the target of war, versus Pakistan (oh, and some rich folks in Texas), which is at least "anti-US"... and

  No, the events of Sept 11 is not the gist of why Bush is going to war.

  However, the events of Sept 11 is symptomatic of the fact that America often puts it's nose into other countries' affairs, without regard for the culture and laws of those countries. And if America keeps poking and pushing people, eventually people are going to strike back. And they did.
• 

  xenawarrior

  However, the events of Sept 11 is symptomatic of the fact that America often puts it's nose into other countries' affairs, without regard for the culture and laws of those countries. And if America keeps poking and pushing people, eventually people are going to strike back. And they did.

  Prisca- so basically you are saying that we deserved what we got eh? The events of Sept 11 are symptomatic of terrorism. If you would like to state things as fact, please find the facts and then do so. If you are rendering your opinion, please state it as your opinion and not fact. You might also read some history about our country instead of simply bashing America for the hell of it.

  XW
• 

  Prisca

  XW,

  The statements I made are based on facts, as well as being my general opinion. I am not going to go searching thru the net on this Sunday afternoon just to convince you of anything. Quite frankly, I'm not that interested in convincing anyone of anything, because I spent 30 years of my life trying to do that with the JW religion.

  But the facts are, America is not as loved by the world as your politicians and your media would like you to think. America does have a history of sticking its nose into other countries' affairs and pushing its culture into other cultures. As a result, groups have decided to hit back. And they did, and they are planning to do so again.

  America can continue to stick its head in the sand. Or, it can wake up and realise that it is part of the world, not the world itself.

  BTW, I laugh at the notions of "America bashing". I have no reason to bash your country, as I have travelled there and have friends there. But sometimes an outsider is needed to help you understand how the world sees your country, rather than how your country sees the world.
• 

  Robdar

  Wow, I go out to a movie and when I get home, this topic is blazing. I went to see "About Schmidt" starring Jack Nicholson. For an existential angst movie, it wasn't bad. I will read the responses and reply as soon a humanly possible.

  Thanks for posting everybodya.

  Love yas,

  Robyn
• 

  xenawarrior

  The statements I made are based on facts, as well as being my general opinion. I am not going to go searching thru the net on this Sunday afternoon just to convince you of anything. Quite frankly, I'm not that interested in convincing anyone of anything, because I spent 30 years of my life trying to do that with the JW religion.

  Your years in the JW religion have nothing to do with this political discussion you have entered into Prisca.

  I didn't ask you to go searching through the net for information- I figured if you have an opinion, you might have some facts in your own knowledge to back it up. But it would appear that opinion is based largely on the same kind of propaganda you cited yourself as our own problem. You don't have to convince me of anything in order to have a discussion with me about American politics or history. You do however need something more than rhetoric- like facts.

  But the facts are, America is not as loved by the world as your politicians and your media would like you to think. America does have a history of sticking its nose into other countries' affairs and pushing its culture into other cultures. As a result, groups have decided to hit back. And they did, and they are planning to do so again.

  I'm sure that is the case with "some" people in the world. But I believe it is evidenced by factual numbers of people who desire to come to the U.S. and live that "some" is the case and not the broad spectrum. Can you tell me specifically from your own knowledge what countries America has stuck it's nose into and what countries we have pushed our culture onto other cultures and the terrible harm that has come of this practice? While you are at it, you might want to look at the good we have done all over the world.

  America can continue to stick its head in the sand. Or, it can wake up and realise that it is part of the world, not the world itself.

  It would appear you have this all figured out. Please give us some facts about all of this instead of just your opinion okay?

  But sometimes an outsider is needed to help you understand how the world sees your country, rather than how your country sees the world.

  Really? We "need" this? Because you think so? I don't think any Americans "need" "help to understand" from "outsiders" with little or no knowledge of American history.

  I don't have any problem with someone having an opinion of us or any other country and their politics when it's based on knowledge. That is the basis of a good debate. Throwing out opinion without that knowledge isn't.

  XW
• 

  Robdar

  After reading all the comments, I must say that I have enjoyed them all and found them informative. I may not agree with all of them, but I have nothing to add. I do, however, want to address this remark:

  What if I fart a genie out of my a$$ and get three wishes?

  Dude, I would pay good money to see that. Please take a picture.

  Love,

  Robyn

  Edited by - robdar on 9 February 2003 0:9:29
• 

  xenawarrior

  Another thing I need to ask Prisca-

  Where does your knowledge about American history or politics come from? Have you read our history books? Have you studied American history? Or does your limited knowledge of our history and politics come from what you get from the media? Isn't that just different "propaganda"???

  I don't know very much about your country. But I would be hard pressed to start voicing opinions about decisions made by leaders of your country based on the opinions of others I have heard or what I might have heard or read in the media.

  XW

  edited for spelling

  Edited by - xenawarrior on 9 February 2003 0:16:30
• 

  FreeWilly

  It is true that many others do not like the US... at least the fact that the US is the last remaining superpower and leads the world in technology and economy. I would venture to say that ANY country in this position would face some sort of resentment and criticism from the rest of the world. Yes the US does carry tremendous influence (due to the above factors) around the world and that is another source of complaint.

  But I think everyone should keep in mind that WHAT the US advocates is freedom and free markets economies and democratic societies. The fact that 'Western' stores in Iran can't keep up with the demand is NOT due to US bullying their way in. Its Supply and Demand - the people like/want it. The fact that Arab countries aligned with the US hold elections is NOT sticking our necks into affairs that don't concern us - they are basic human rights. The world could be speaking Russian were it not for the US and its allies cooperating to dislodge the USSR. Today though we have the luxury to say in retrospect that this was "sticking our heads in other people's business". Let me just say that if you were around when Communism threatened to encapsulate the world, you would have no compunction against those who were trying to prevent it.

  Now the 'world' opinion is for the most part with the US. There are some notable, vocal opposes, but there is a significant contingent that agree that Saddam and other Despots should not be allowed to threaten humanity.

  This being said though......"The World" community DID NOTHING for the past 12 years to dissuade Iraq from furthering his adgenda. What makes anyone think that further apathy toward Iraq will achieve any results in Iraq or elsewhere? There is tremendous outcry from a vocal few who clammor for continued inspections. EVERYONE in the world community has been content to let Saddam go his merry way before now. The fact that there are inspectors even in the country are due ENTIRELY to the threat of the US and UK.

  Some think the US is sticking its head where it doesn't belong when it comes to the Mid east. Perhaps this is true. Why? Because Muslim countries want to "drive Israel" into the sea. They want to exterminate a whole race of people due to religious intolerance. The US has been pivotal in preventing this from happeneing. Lets not forget people that the reason Israel had to establish a state in the Mideast to begin with is because "the world community" would not accept jewish refugees into their countries after WW2. Muslim countries biggest beef with the US is their support for Israel. Yes without this support Irael could fall more easily to them. Iraq would love to lead that charge too. It seems that many in peace advocates would be content to let that happen.

  I think many of those who are willing to let things slide in Iraq would be future victims and conquests were it not for the US/UK and other allies making the tough decisions for them.

  Everone wants peace. Sometimes it means forcibly apprehending criminals like Saddam. Oh, and BTW the Drudge report had an good article about an interview with a recent Iraqi defector. He contends that the Iraqi populace is welcoming this war! In his words "we (Iraqi people) are victims of all of this too"
• 

  Stephanus

  XW, you raise an interesting point - our media shows a very warped, usually anti-American view of things quite often. During the Reagan era, his speeches were usually editted by our media to show what a prat he was (and the implication was: so are the people who vote for this prat - the Yanks themselves) My first clue that there was something wrong with this came with the Challenger disaster in 1986. I got to see an entire uneditted speech by Reagan and said to myself: so that's why they keep re-electing him! It was quite a revelation, and the reason why now I tend to look for many views on news from America, not just what our biased media wants us to believe...
• 

  LyinEyes

  Very well said Xenawarrior. I totally agree as an American I dont NEED someone to tell me how our country is seen by an outsider. It just sounds to me Prisca , that you seem to be attacking America for sticking their noses in other countries affairs. But do you know how many other countries turn to the USA when they need back up?? Just the phrase" Sticking your nose in other countries affairs", is very judgmental and it seems you condemn the USA for this. Really this war on terrorism has been going on for quite awhile before 9-11, how many times do they have to TRY to blow up our building before we have had enough?

  I hate this war, I hate that people will die on both sides. I am proud to be American, but I hate to think of all the death that is sure to come. I guess that is why being one of Jehovah's Witnessses, was so appealing, God's Kingdom was to unite all mankind, and war would be no more. No more mourning, no outcry no pain........... the former things have past way.......... I wish this would be true.