by UnDisfellowshipped 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I am struggling to post in this forum.
Ah it worked
Ninja----try firefox or another browser. If you are in IE, then click the compatibility button. It is at the top in your address bar, next to the refresh button and the close X. It looks like a sheet ripped in half.
NC
Thanks New Chapter that is the best information i have seen on this site.
What i have been trying to say was this:
"One who was raped would not be guilty of pornei'a" - WT
If one is not guilty of porneia i.e. fornication/adultry then one would not be df. Period.
Hello and welcome Ninja!
You are right. But watchtower elders usually won't give up their periodic fun that easy. They go as far as disfellowshipping the family of victims if they are challenged. One elder made a remark about judicial action as "judicially processing." You and me are like products that's being processed.
That said it all!
Has anyone searched more recent literature to see if they have modified their stance? I am nauseous! This is clearly what I heard duirng the 1960s and early 1970s both at KH and within my immediate family. I recall when I was eitheen a female JW cousin and I were going through the main bus terminal in Manhattan with our gm. My cousin remarked with clear glee that a woman had recently been raped in the terminal and there was biref national attention. She said that the woman deserved it" 1. She was physically in NY and all NY women deserve rape. 2. She probably wore a miniskirt when almost all women under the age of fifty wore miniskirts.
She said this to me while I was wearing a miniskirt and commuting to Manhattan every day to attend college. Yep, another cause of rape -college.
Manhattan was far more than NYC to me. When there was so much chaos and violence, I earned enough money to escape for the day. I fled so often that I knew every dept in every store and every low cost musuem by heart. Watching people distracted me from my home situation.
I did not retort. My cousin was a decent person, overall.
The very sad part is that most JW women probably agree or see this stance as so trivial that who cares. Denial by women is also a strong factor. The "it can't ever happen to me. I am too virutous" helps a woman cope poorly with the risk of losing control over her body.
My father, who was a virulent antiCatholic, once remarked after a nun was raped in the local church, that she deserved it to Catholic neighbors and friends of my mother. Thank God, they realized my mom was stuck.
Every neutral source of rape educatin says there can never be one rule. Only a victim can assess so many intangible factors in her brain. Experts can never know all the circumstances and subtle hunches that make up this decision. Also, in law schoo, we were discussing rape. Our prof asked how many men were attempted rape victims? I was shockekd when almost all hands went up. He then asked if they felt that the students could have taken their assailants in a physical confrontation? Almost all hands remained up. Women have different physical strength from men. NYC had to hire women as firefighers and police officers under a court order. There was no problem finding women who qualified on the physical skills of being a police officer. It took many years for NOW and the ACLU to locate a single woman who could pass the rigorous fire department tests.
Life should have a value that surpasses taint. A taint that is culturally imposed.
Jesus valued life, as did all the apostles.
Anothe factoid: the vast majority of rapes in this country are male on male rapes in prisons. Aggression is the prime component. Most of the perps return to normal heterosexual activity outside of prison. Rape is about power, not sex. I've read that many rapists don't even ejaculate. It can't be sexually enjoyable.
I have a question for everybody:
Why? I mean WHY would a woman who was raped feel the need to go to the elders and tell them anything??? I wouldn't tell them what time it was.
She was the victim of a crime. She should go to the police. If she were mugged and beat up would she go to the elders about this?? No. She would go to the police to report a crime because that is what happened. The elders do not have the authority to investigate and prosecute a crime. What's going on here?
Is the fact that rape is a sexual crime mean the elders' stupid ears have to hear about it? This makes no damn sense to me at all.
^You have an excellent point LongHairGal.
These stories are crazy, but I would like to see someone who was DFed for being raped post a Youtube video. It would be better if there was someone from Austrillia where they can actually get their private file from bethal. Immagine being able to hold up the paperwork that said you got DFed for being raped!
Longhairgirl, it's because Jehovah's Witnessess are a dangerous mind control cult. They are trained to go through their elders first and foremost. They are also brain washed to not trust wordly authority.
A Circuit Overseer reminded the witnesses not to trust wordly authority and said, "Building our trust theocratic authority will save our lives." This was just back in May. (sigh!)
If one is not guilty of porneia i.e. fornication/adultry then one would not be df. Period.
True ninja---but I think the anger here is not whether rape is considered porneia---but the criteria they use to determine if a person committed porneia or was raped. If they determine rape, then no DF. But how do they determine that? And what damage do they do while investigating it? And if a woman or man really was raped, but didn't follow the ever changing rules (scream, no scream, out after dark) and THEY decided it was porneia and not rape---what kind of horrible damage is being done when they do DF a vicitm?
Who the hell are they to decide anyway? Insurance salesperson? Window washers? Mechanics? Is this who we go to with such sensitive information and expect a solid outcome? They have been given power beyond their skills, and can only follow what the org says like little monkeys--no matter how many times they may change the rules.
NC
I knew a young witness girl who claimed she was raped (by a JW kid) - went to the committee about it, and ended up getting publicly reproved because they did not believe her and insisted that she had to back down on the rape claim to be repented - which she would not do.
She had to move to a different city to get over the reputation they gave her - and yes, it followed her to the new city.
