Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol 449 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Village Idiot

  C0ntr013r:

  "We are not debating the existence of God, we are debating if you can be sure of his existence/non existence."

  I don't know if this has been brought up before but it would be helpful to define what type of god we are talking about. Is it the Biblical god? Is it a Deist god who only created the universe but left it alone for life to evolve?

  You can make absolutely sure that the biblical god either does not exist or if he exists that he is a pathetic writer and tyrant. That would be based on the contradictions and the moral turpitude of the Bible.

  The Deist god is harder to "disprove" as he can be considered to be an over glorified scientist in a different universe experimenting with the creation of other universes.
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  C0ntr013r

  Just to clarify since there seem to be some misunderstanding, I am not a Theist.

  And in the discussion I am arguing for Agnosticism, that's it.

  EDIT: also that Atheism have nothing to do with science. It is lack of belief.
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  cofty

  Still waiting for a description of this thing you call "god" that you assert it is unscientific not to believe in.
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  freemindfade

  If no one had every made up a myth or a YHWH or whatever we would all be agnostic, that is their could be things beyond us unknown.

  This fact has made "agnostic" mean more than one thing, would you not agree? Quite literally maybe it has one single definition, but it means different things to different people. In the purist meaning we all have to be. But outside of that, many "agnostics" believe there is something out there, its just undefined, they still slide into a belief they want to hold onto that is unfounded, and simply unknown.

  Its a never ending circle jerk, why? because its worth debating? nope, because religion is such crazy notion it turns it into a hot mess to even discuss
• 

  C0ntr013r

  I don't know if this has been brought up before but it would be helpful to define what type of god we are talking about. Is it the Biblical god? Is it a Deist god who only created the universe but left it alone for life to evolve?

  I don't know, the claim was that the OPs God cant exist. I don't know what God Saintbertholdt interpreted that to be, maybe God in general?

  And I agree with you that we cant disprove either one but that the Biblical one is less likely to exist.

  
  
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  I must admit, I really can't be bothered to get bogged down in whether atheists are agnostic/gnostic or what they believe.

  According to the OED, atheism is ultimately from the Greek a- 'without' + theos 'god'. As we all know, there is no scientific evidence for the existence of god.

  How, therefore, can atheism be unscientific? Surely the atheist position is in line with all the available evidence?
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  Saintbertholdt

  C0ntr013r,

  
  

  You can say that misrepresent your arguments or your statements.

  Perhaps I am. However I have tried to be as clear in my reasoning as possible regarding my point of view.

  It reduces to the following:

  1. 'agrumentum ad ignorantum' is used everyday as a part of scientific discovery.

  2. One does not consider a possible cause for which there is no evidence as a valid contributing factor.

  3. One always remains open to new evidence.

  
  

  So going full circle to title to the Topic of this thread: Labeling oneself Atheist is unscientific.

  
  

  How can the label of atheism possibly be unscientific when it is applying part of everyday scientific method?

  
  
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  C0ntr013r

  If no one had every made up a myth or a YHWH or whatever we would all be agnostic, that is their could be things beyond us unknown.
  This fact has made "agnostic" mean more than one thing, would you not agree? Quite literally maybe it has one single definition, but it means different things to different people. In the purist meaning we all have to be. But outside of that, many "agnostics" believe there is something out there, its just undefined, they still slide into a belief they want to hold onto that is unfounded, and simply unknown.

  I agree! I would argue that Agnosticism is the default position since we are born that way.

  It meaning different thing to different people is definitely a problem when discussing the topic, the OP for example does not understand the labels he uses...
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  Saintbertholdt

  C0ntr013r,

  I don't know, the claim was that the OPs God cant exist. I don't know what God Saintbertholdt interpreted that to be, maybe God in general?

  
  In threads of this nature I believe only one type of God applies:

  Oubliette

  Carl Sagan had this to say about that:

  • The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity. - As quoted in "Scientists & Their Gods" in U.S. News & World Report Vol. 111 (1991)
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  I agree! I would argue that Agnosticism is the default position since we are born that way.

  Dawkins is probably the biggest atheist out there, but according to his own atheist scale, he doesn't even rate himself as a 7. In God delusion he rates himself a 6 because as a scientist he still has to remain open to the possibility of a God (beardy man). Agnosticism is part of atheism, to a lesser or greater extent, depending on the individual.

  His scale:

  1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."

  2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."

  3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."

  4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."

  5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."

  6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

  7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."