Where do they sit in your hall?

by ns7 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Flowerpetal

    Greetings all
    What I find bemusing is, if there are any disfellowshipped ones in your hall they have to sit at the back. Now without getting into the merits/rights/wrongs of whether this should be still acceptable, where do they sit in your hall?
    You see I seem to remember that they would sit on the back row, come in quietly just after the song and prayer and leave at the end just as quick. There would be this unwritten rule that some may sit there. But what I have noticed in my hall and in neighbouring congregations is that they will sit along a row of chairs placed along the back wall, usually where an attendants sits. This sends messages to all those in the cong who are there, a very subtle message (I don’t think) that we have the spiritual unclean with us. Even if they have family they can’t seem to sit discreetly at the back.
    Where did this stupid rule come in?
    It just seems that if any did want any to return we seem to excel at making them jump through hoops, just so that they can show this humbly, repentant attitude.

    Well at my hall, there was a d'fd person who would sit in the front. Nobody asked him to sit somewhere else. In another case, a d'fd bro, sat in the back room(2nd school where there was a speaker and windows).. It was by his choice. But after a while, he was asked by an elder to sit in the main part of the hall, which he did, but it was his choice to sit in the back row. There is now a d'fd young lady who still lives at home with her JW parents and a baby, and they all sit together. They have always sat about the 3rd or 4th row from the back, even before she was d'fd. So they sit in the same place now.

    I guess each cong is different, bu I never was in a cong, where dfd ones were ordered around. And not allowed to stand for the songs???? Never heard nor seen that before!

  • Flowerpetal

    Joel, I would have smiled at you. I smile at all df'd persons of the ones who look my way. Some don't.

    As far as these other stories of some congs not regarding df'd people as persons and not being allowed to contribute money to the hall, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! I'm not arguing that it hasn't happened, but what are some of these elders, etc. thinking???

    I guess I would have to say I am fortunate to be in cong where our elders are loving. I used to see one elder talk to a df'd person on a regular basis as an encouragement to him.


  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hi there ns7:

    I can attest to the fact of how humiliating it is for df'd to have to continue to be ostacized at the meeting when just being there is to be a sign of repentance and a being there is a requirement in order to be reinstated. I couldn't then and I cannot now understand the mentality that thinks this further humiliation in all part of humbling a person.

    I used to come in a little early to get a back seat because like in many halls most often the back seats are always filled up first, so I arrived early just to try to get a back seat be as inconspicuous as possible. Then I was told I had to come in after the song and prayer so that meant I had to walk up to near the front to get an outside seat away from others.

    Then I was told I had to sit at the back row so the attendant would save me a seat. Trouble was many times he either wasn't there or he forgot. So meeting after meeting were filled with humiliation. To me it is dispicable pour salt on their wounds!!! And to make this last for a year "in order to see evidence of their heart condition because the elders can't read a df'd persons heart" is totally absurd!!!

    What surprises me is, when I brought this point up in my thread last week in "RE:Ozzie's post about Restriction..." some current JW named 'Humble' said "You are wrong...There are no restrictions on seating" for the df'd. Well I hope he and any others who think we're making theses things up are reading these posts now.

    I have a lot more to say on this whole subject of df'ing but I'll save that for another post. This, and a gazillion more things, are the reason why I've:

    Had Enough

  • DevilsAdvocate_DA

    Flowerpetal, you said in you post under "Were do they set in the Kingdom Hall".

    As far as these other stories of some congs not regarding df'd people as persons and not being allowed to contribute money to the hall, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! I'm not arguing that it hasn't happened, but what are some of these elders, etc. thinking???

    I believe you have a learning disabilty or reading handcap. But that's ok. There are millions of us who are in the same boat. It's how you or the one you have appointed to row you boat that counts.

    Let me explain.

    It is apparent that you did not read my post correctly, for whatever the reason.

    Reason #1, I did not say that disfellowshiped people are not persons. Nor did I say the WBTS doesn't accept their monies.

    I have probably been around this organization, WBTS, for longer then you have lived. Just my guess.

    Let me tell you what I have seen since the debacle of 1975.

    I have been in a grocery store, gas station, at parks, etc, etc, and have seen what is called active Jehovah's Witnesses talk to everybody and anything (dogs, squirrels, birds, etc.). But when a what is call a disfellowshiped person approaches the active Jehovah's Witness acts as though they are invisible.

    My point is:

    Point # 1. When these so-called disfellowshiped persons come to the kingdom hall they are treated as though they are invisible, not a person. I believe you should have grasp this point from all the other posters on this subject.

    Point # 2. If these persons that are disfellowshiped are invisible or not a person, why is it that they are counted as one taking a seated space, as though they were a person . Why is it that the WBTS will accept their monies, even checks with their names on, if in fact they are invisible, not a person. In fact many of my fellow witnesses, and I hope you are not one of them, treat these disfellowshiped persons (if we can call them a person), worse then they treat a stray dog.

    So while the letter of the law is one thing it's application is something quite different.


  • nojw86

    Hi guys, just to find humor in the sadness of dfsp. ones, I know where they are sitting, relaxing at home in their fAVORITE easy chairs. Bye Bye....mother org.

  • Amazing

    Hi Ns7:

    Typically, they sat in the last row. On a night where the hall was full, the attendants would add some extra chairs, ostensibly for visitors, but this often included disfellowshiped persons.

    You said, "... come in quietly just after the song and prayer and leave at the end just as quick."

    Generally this was true in our hall, but, at times the DF'd persons would come in just before the meeting started, so they could be sure to get a back row seat. They would sit quietly and read so as to avoid 'eye' contact.

    When we took attendance count, I recall being instructed not to count DF'd persons because they technically are 'dead' in Jehovah's eyes, and not really present in the same sense as those in 'good standing.' It all seems so silly now, like a little kids clubhouse mentality.

    You said, "Even if they have family they can’t seem to sit discreetly at the back."

    True. When a dad is DF's he will commonly sit with his family. But, they still tend to sit near the back together.

    You asked, "Where did this stupid rule come in?"

    I don't know. I imagine that it may have started shortly after DFing became a JW practice. People who are still believers in the religion, but DF'd, may feel embarassed, and want to stay in the back to avoid being gawked at. At the same time, Elders look for humility as one of the conditions of reinstatement. So, if a DF'd person parades up to the front, this may not play well in the Elders minds.

    However, when I think of those whom Jesus praised, I think of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. The Pharisee was in good standing, wnet to the front of the Synagog to pray out loud. The Tax collector stayed in the back and humbly prayed quietly.

    I think the Watch Tower has truly done a fine job of showing us who the Pharisees are ... not the DF'd persons, but the smug leaders and their minions.

    Simply Amazing

  • LoneWolf

    Hmmmm. I have no idea about other places. I've been DFed for over 12 years now and sit where ever I darn well please - front, back, anywhere that comes in handy. I get there when I want and stay as long as I wish, which is usually at least 15 min. and sometimes a half hour. I want my family to visit as long as they desire.

    I think the elders are exquisitely well aware that few things would delight me more than for them to raise some objection to the situation. . . Hehehehe!

    alias: Tom Howell

  • waiting

    Hey LoneWolf with an alias,

    Nice to meet you. Were you an h20 poster? Seems I remember the name from there, - from Alaska or at least cold country territory?

    If so, I always enjoyed your posts. If not - I'm sure I'll enjoy them here, where you chose to post. Can post anywhere you darn well please. Welcome.


  • Flowerpetal

    No DA, I don't have a *reading comprehension* problem. I took your post to *imply* that in some congregations this is the way df'd persons are treated. So pardon me, that in my reply, my *language* was a little different, I still understood what you were saying.
    And if you had noticed my other reply to Joel Bear, I mentioned that I smile at all df'd persons if they are looking my way. Some avoid eye contact--period. So if Joel had been in my cong, I would have smiled.

    Now as far as being around the WTB&TS, as a baptized person, it has been 41 years for me. I am 53 years old and was a child of a JW mother and a Roman Catholic father, who never practiced his religion.
    My mom was a witness when I was born.

    And if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't get baptized so early in life.


  • LoneWolf

    Hello, waiting.

    Yup, I'm the same crabby old man from Alaska. I enjoyed your posts too.


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