by ns7 40 Replies latest jw friends
Well, there was a man in our hall DF'd and he would show up early go to the front of the hall and sit in the first row. He would then take his time leaving. He is now in good standing, was married in the hall, and keeps smiling(DA)!!!!
So, I think all DF'd should to the same!!
DC
G'day all,
Methinks this could be quite a long thread!
I have personally seen congregations have rules for where DF sit.
1. Generally at the back
2. Somethere 'inconspicuous' so as not to cause embarrassment (Don't you love that one!)
3. In the vestibule.
No doubt the front row is out of bounds.
I have also personally witnessed:
The door to the Kingdom Hall being pushed in the face of an incoming DF person by the attendant.
A DF brother being pushed aside in his own home by a service overseer keen to not exchange a greeting!
Need I go on?
Don't know about where you live, but in the land of Oz things have sunk pretty low!
Ozzie
G'day all again,
A couple of replies to some interesting and valuable points that have been raised:
mommy
"Maybe I was just reassuring them they were human."
Yes, you were doing that and how important it is. Just think, a person who is repentant is already feeling pretty low. The treatment they get at the KH can simply confirm their worthlessness. How different from the Prodigal Son's return! He was welcomed back. His self-worth was restored. He felt better about himself that his father was confirming his forgiveness. This is confirmed by joelbear's comment "If one person in the hall had smiled at me or patted my back or squeezed my shoulder I would probably still be a witness."
LDH
I wonder, why does she even want to go?
BTW you have a good point to make, despite the profanity!
Cheers,
ozzie
Under the W/T system the sin is not forgotten. It's constantly brought up before the repentant one. He/she is never allowed to forget it.
Generally I have found that JW responses to this have concentrated on the congregation/organisation's perspective, never the repentant one's. Good on ya, mommy.
I don't know where my other post went, hope this isn't a duplicate.
In our hall those who had family to save them a seat sat with their family wherever they sat. Those who didn't and had to come in late sat mid-way to the front. We had exit doors up front too so maybe that's why it was allowed.
I always smiled at df'd ones. I could usually get away with a greeting until they or someone else pointedly told me they were df'd, then I'd act surprised, OH! I didn't know!
One gal I caught out in the parking lot as she was exiting from the rear door. I had to go almost all the way around the building to catch her and introduce myself, "You must be new and we haven't met yet." When she told me she was df'd and wanted to be reinstated I hugged her and welcomed her and then took her back inside to the presiding overseer because she didn't know who he was.
--ps-- I knew already that she was df'd just by how miserable she looked during the meeting and because she was new and no one went up to meet her. In the parking lot they all just passed us by.
When a young man who was df'd showed up with his girlfriend I gave him a huge smile and bounded out of the library to meet his girlfriend on her way to the ladies room.
I thanked those who held doors for me, shared songbooks, bibles, wt's with those who sat near me and didn't have theirs.
So, bravo to those of you who treated them as people, as fellow humans.
Here's one for you: since they can't be prayed for unless they show signs of repentence (true repentence) how do they get to that stage without prayers? No jw can say their prayers got someone back into the trap. It would have to be their rude behavior that got some one back!
Devil's Advocate: ever hear about the speaker who got his tie caught in his zipper when zipping up during his talk? He understood his wife's signal and turned around to zip up, bent over, tie got caught and he couldn't get it loose. Finally he turns back around to the mike and asks for help. Two attendants zip up there to help, so now there are three men with their backs to the audience, all working on this guy's zipper. It won't budge and he can't walk off stage because he's bent over. They had to carry him to the back and cut the tie with scissors. No talk that day folks!!
Hey Venice:
After I was df'ed, I wrote a long letter ripping the cover off a particularly odious elder and some of the crap he excreted from the platform. He was called on the carpet big time and eventually was removed as an elder.
Anyway, I went to a meeting with a hand-held tape recorder, sat in the very middle of the front row, and when he got up to make the concluding remarks, I turned the tape recorder on and held it just above my head where it could be seen by all and recorded his every word. When I walked out after the meeting, the crowd parted just like the Red Sea. I tell you, it was better than a bl... well, it was good, anyway.
Francoise
This is getting interesting?
People need to be treated as people. It’s supposed to be one of the 2 commandments Jesus gave.(Not supposed- It IS!)
Now none of us are perfect, and when I do something that I am not particularly proud of, I am hard on myself, mentally and with lots if good intention to do better. I am referring to normally everyday things. Losing or snappy temper, upsetting someone inadvertently, something at work ete,ete,.
I am still human though. I might not want sympathy, but I would want to be treated as a human (or as Quark states in DS9 Huu-mon)
So good on you if, if you tried just a little welcome, a knowing and sympathetic look, even just a open posture showing that we have nothing to fear.
I say this not with the intention of keeping people in but with the intention of doing the right thing.
I saw a film recently The Generals Daughter” usual mystery, Thriller. Who dun it. Great line said to the investigating officer
"There are 3 ways to do this. The right way. The wrong way and the Army way”
Substitute army for Jw and you see the parallel.
In my Hall they sit –if any do come – at the back wall. No chairs for them as such. Put there by attendants. With a 10-12 feet open space isle between the wall and the next(back) row. Any going to toilets or walking to the back are there for all to be seen.
ns7
What a bunch of theoCRAPTIC bull, come in after the prayer, leave before, its not enough that you made the meeting already humilated at how your being treated and cannot even hear the prayer, its no wonder that now they are warning the R & F in publications about being called a DANGEROUS CULT!
Well, we had an unusually cold request from the hall that df'd my son. He was trying to come back, and his wife was told that he should not attend that hall at all "his presence caused problems for some of the people." I called the elder and then followed it up with a letter to the body (no reply despite a request for one), and then changed congs. Now, for other reasons, I just quit attending.
So, the command from on high was don't sit anywhere in OUR hall. What a bunch of baloney!
Patio
Hi NoJw86,
I noticed that this is your third post here on this board.
You probably do not know anything about me, but I would like to say, I agree with your thought, as a whole.
My question -- WHAT IS THE ANSWER? As an oldtimer as a witnes for my Great God Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ (notice I did not say as a WBTS member) I find nothing in the Bible to back up the WBTS view on disfellowshiping. I,like you , agree there must be something to control Satan devilish actions. However, I believe, from what I read in Jehovahs' word, that any action taken against my bad reflection against Jehovah should come from individual members of Jehovah's Witnesses. Individual consciences not a body of people.
For example: If you saw me doing something that was out of harmony of Jehovahs' arrangement. Then you apply Matt 18. If in your eyes, and yours only, because you were the single party involved, (and that is usually the case), if you in your heart can not approve of my action. Then you and you alone can (using the WBTS word) disfellowship me. If someone else finds me out, then it should between him/her and me to work it out.
Just my thoughts of many years of watching the show with Jehovah and Jesus.
I would like to add, that this BULL, as has been correctly called, did not raise it's ugly head until the late 70's. I personaly believe it is an attempt to keep control by a few up in the white tower over the masses after the 1975 debacle -- which they have no right to. Try Ted Jaracz for one. The only ones that have the right to control, and I do not look at it as control from them is Jehovah and Jesus. I look at it as mutual respect.
What I have said, I have said.
DA
I've really appreciated your comments above people, TY.
In my former congregation, disfellowshipped ones were 'ordered' to sit in the first two rows, in the outside seats nearest the wall. They were told to come early, take their seats. They all complied, they weren't allowed to stand for the songs, then they were 'commanded' to get up and leave as quietly as possible before the prayer.
It was so very conspicuous - how humiliating it must have been for them week after week, to have all eyes on them as they exited. So, I think it would be preferable to have been told to sit in the back. It would seem that each congregation must make their own rules re the seating of such ones????? No matter how they handle it, it is certainly devoid of any human compassion and reflective of the coldness of the organization hierachy which filters down to the local congregations. Shameful, shameful!
Patio, your experience 'takes the cake' - incredible.
