May I ask, who is Reinhard Lengtat?
Ray Franz Key Witness?!
by qwerty 121 Replies latest jw friends
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VeniceIT
Reinhard Lengtat was at Bethel in the 70's and was on the writing staff. He was close friends with Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap. He left Bethel around the same time as they did and was not df'd, he moved out and then was an elder in a congregation until the mid 90's. He has since faded.....
Ven
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WildHorses
Thanks Ven, I had no idea who he was.
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silentlambs
Is Ray Great or What?
While there are many doctrinal points that could be debated, I have from day one endeavored to keep silentlambs focused on one thing, the protection of children. That is why many brothers and sisters from within support silentlambs as an organization that works ultimately for their children. If there were any other motive it would have to be the education and support of abuse survivors. Through silentlambs more abuse JW survivors have been given a voice to the media and public than ever before in history. Personally it is a great source of satisfaction to see that happen. That in a statement is the direction of the silentlambs organization, a direction I strongly support and suggest everyone support.
I have never demanded people support me or my personal "agendas", whatever that is I do not even know. I do not have a church, I do not want anyone following me for anything. I did that for 43 years. If on the other hand I ask people to come to a court trial to support and abuse survivor, is that following me? If I ask people to come for a candlight vigil and burn candles for over 300 abuse survivors, is that following me? If I ask people to march on Brooklyn, deliver lambs and let WT know abuse survivors exist, is that following me? I just do not see what I am getting out of this deal, it certainly isn't money. On the other hand if you were one of those persons who "showed up" and looked into the eyes of those who have been terribly hurt and see them have hope. You see them finding strength and taking back the power that was robbed from them. You hear laughter from people who haven't laughed in a long time, you see kindness and compassion that has been withheld by those they hold dear, expressed by people they do not even know. That is the work of silentlambs, and is not subjecting yourself to the will of Bill Bowen.
Is Ray Great or What?
Child abuse is happening as I write this because the GB refuses to change WT policy. Call it "black and white" thinking but I truly believe anyone who comes to a clear understanding of this would certainly throw their support with silentlambs. We do not ask you to change your religion, beliefs, or love Bill Bowen, just support JW abuse survivors and ask for a wicked policy to change.
I am not going to hunt you down and kill you if you do not, but I have difficulty understanding why aanyone with full education of these matters chooses to not support silentlambs. Are you a bad person? Certainly not, but in my opinion you are certainly missing a great opportunity to help those who truly suffer.
Is Ray Great or What?
We have fought a night and day battle with the media to get the coverage we have, was it for Bill Bowen's fame and prominence? or was it so more abuse survivors could come forward? I think you know the answer to that question.
As many have stated more need to come forward and get involved in the support of silentlambs and I would certainly welcome fading into the background and let more of a collective carry this load. This is a problem involving crime that is happening in the here and now. There are new cases coming in everyday and many involving children, they need help.
The cause of silentlambs is we support those who need it the most and let them know they are loved. If you want to be a JW, so what? If you hate JW's, so what? We can work together and help abuse survivors make progress on the path to healing and stand up to those who hurt them. Silentlambs is certainly not against Ray Franz is Ray Great or What?
silentlambs
Edited by - silentlambs on 9 October 2002 19:34:46
Edited by - silentlambs on 9 October 2002 19:54:54
Edited by - silentlambs on 9 October 2002 23:19:37
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plmkrzy
He wrote a book that was dynamic in what it reveals, but his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.
He was NOT the author unless he wrote it in a tent
Is Ray a bad person? I never said that,
I'm sorry Bill but yes you did and you need to acknowledge that as any respectable person would do.
Edited by - plmkrzy on 9 October 2002 19:21:6
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Mary
I would find it hard to believe that Ray Franz would support the GB on ANY issue, let alone something like child molestation. Ray was put through hell over 20 years ago: mentally, emotionally, spiritually and financially. I believe he was in his 60's when he got DF'd and it has probably taken his years to try and recover from all the damage they did to him. He'd be in his 80's now and probably couldn't even begin to think of 'picking up the torch' yet again; it'd bring back all the pain he lived through once.
I can understand that he wouldn't want to do it again.
Let's give the man a break. He did alot in his day.
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waiting
Well thank you ladies - I had no idea who he was either.
Strange thread.
May you all have peace... and may I say that to restrict 'bothering' one 'old man' because he is in his 80's, while calling for justice from several other old... and even older men... is hypocritical. Either age has NOTHING to do with it... or everything. You can't have it both ways, dear ones. - a guest
Thank you, A Guest, for making a valid point that none of us has seem to hit upon yet. The Governing Body (with previously implied suspected child abusers amongst them) and Previous Governing Body Member Ray Franz all have something in common............they are ALL old men.
It's just that we feel that Ray has written heartfelt books helping jw's to freedom and the others are trying to keep jw's in captivity. So leave Ray alone and crucify the other old men.
As for allegations? They're just that. Allegations. Listen, take note, and go on......until someone presents proof. Even then, all persons realize that proof can be tainted to help/hinder either side.
Adios.
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Pathofthorns
That's half-assed Bill.
You have publicly attacked Ray's character and still you make the following ridiculous comments criticizing how Ray chooses to live his life after the WT.
I guess I could state it another way, I do not understand the Ray Franz cause. It appears to be, leave WT it is bad, try to help others out by reading his book and go to small Bible study groups for the rest of your life. Is the sum total of helping people? to be expressed in helping them to leave WT and harassing those to stay? Isn't that kind of like a JW in reverse? If this is your choice in life it certainly does not make you a bad person, that is what freedom is all about. But I guess there lay the difference with the cause of silentlambs. We support those who need it the most and let them know they are loved. If you want to be a JW, so what? If you hate JW's, so what? We can work together and help abuse survivors make progress on the path to healing and stand up to those who hurt them. Silentlambs is certainly not against Ray Franz we don't care if he wants to support JW abuse survivors or not.
We wish Ray as well as all persons could see the need to stand up on this issue
You've been hanging around JR Brown to long.
Path
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Englishman
Maybe Bill is a very sincere person in his aims and goals, but simply got overtaken for a while with the exuberance of his own verbosity?
Lots of us have done it. Princess Diana wanted to help others, and did just that, but craved adulation. Kevin Keegan does it for a pastime!
Englishman.
Edited by - Englishman on 9 October 2002 19:38:40
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RevMalk
Bill, I think you've done the right thing here with your detailed message. You stated the way you feel, and why you feel this way. I for one appreciate it. I agree that once you believe in the cause, you should do something about it, otherwise how can you sleep at night. I don't know if everyone should follow the silentlambs organization, as that's a personal decision that everyone must make for themselves, but we should all be doing something. I think what happens here is that you post a message, everyone jumps all over it without knowing all facts (and I am just as guilty as any), but the initial posts are not long, and not specific. If Ray Franz does not want to support the silentlambs cause, than so what. If he supports the WT policy than shame on him, but not my problem, he'll meet his maker just like I will. Ray Franz shouldn't even be an issue here, silentlambs doesn't need him, silentlambs has the truth. Would a guy like Ray be able to help the cause? Perhaps, but so what, so would a word here and there from President Bush (Mulan, how do you think Bush pronounces "Pedophile"? haha). Anyway, who cares about all this, we could all be doing something productive right now.
I'm not sure your fading into the background is needed, or even a good idea.....surely I think it's a bad idea. You have the bravery and heart to get this going, and you need to keep it going. You might take this suggestion for your own peace of mind and protection. I suggest you set up a board of directors. You still take the lead, but having a board of directors to work with you would relieve some of this hassle. Then at the very least everyone would have several to scream upon rather than just you :) Perhaps you've already planned such a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anywayBill:
As many have stated more need to come forward and get involved in the support of silentlambs and I would certainly welcome fading into the background and let more of a collective carry this load.
A knaves religion is always the rottenest thing about him." John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author