by haujobbz 58 Replies latest jw friends
The reason I have such strong feelings is because on Oct 31, 1986, I had an abortion.
On May 16, 2001, I had a beautiful baby girl.I remember. I know.
And you contrast the birth of the beautiful baby girl with the end of the potential that the earlier fetus had. But that was still *potential*, and, yes, it was *life*, but I don't know of any proof that it was a sentient, human life. I am truly sorry for your pain, but I think you are most likely beating yourself up without cause.
then the answer stays nothing and we should be able to kill anyone because it is an arbitrary decision from that point forwards, isn't it?
I disagree, and that was my point.
That a group of cells LOOK human, or MIGHT SOMEDAY BECOME human, or even HAVE HUMAN DNA is not enough to give it the same protection as, say, an adult human deserves.
It has to *actually be* human to get the protection law gives to humans. And that doesn't happen at conception. 1 single fertilized egg IS NOT A HUMAN BEING.
I think a good yardstick to determine if something IS human is if it has a human mind. Fetuses eventually DO develop one. Some 30 weeks into pregnancy.
If you have ever talked to a woman who has had an abortion, she will most likely tell you that she has never forgiven herself for killing her baby. Most can tell you the day and the year she did that.
Now, seriously, the moment she has said abortion - is she immediately overwhelmed with guilt and an inability to forgive herself?
Or does it take religion and/or family pressure laying layer after layer of guilt on her telling her that women who abort have murdered a human life (despite any scientific evidence to back their claim - which religion has never really relied on, anyway)?
Now, seriously, the moment she has said abortion - is she immediately overwhelmed with guilt and an inability to forgive herself?
Or does it take religion and/or family pressure laying layer after layer of guilt on her telling her that women who abort have murdered a human life (despite any scientific evidence to back their claim - which religion has never really relied on, anyway)?
Abortions are often accompanied by hormonal changes, family/relationship problems and moral dilemmas to ponder which adds to emotional trauma. Many women report feeling relieved because it was not what they wanted at the time. I think it will depend on how your moral conscience viewed it in the first place and where you wanted your life to go.
The moral issues that I can see to having an abortion so far are:
1) Is the fetus conscious?
We seem to have decided that ending a conscious life is wrong (we'll exclude non-humans for the sake of convenience). A single cell would not seem to fit this criteria though, so then the big question is when does the fetus become conscious? Hell if I know, but a working mind would help.2) Will the fetus feel pain?
Scientific studies vary widely on this. A working formation of the nervous system is close to 24 weeks but I have seen as low as 6, depending on the researcher's bias (pro-life vs. pro-choice). Pain-killer should be used after that point if an abortion is necessary.3) Is this terminating potential life?Perhaps this should be worded "Is this terminating a life in progress?" since both men and women will terminate millions of potential lives in their own lifetime. In that case, I would answer "yes." On the other side how can we equate this type of life with a person? I dislike arguments that rely on the future: "It could become a person" since sperm or eggs can also become a person but we don't let it happen very often. The main difference here is choosing to prevent or choosing to stop.
Edited by - LucidSky on 13 August 2002 12:24:35
Good points LucidSky. Another moral issue is the question of whether a human being can ever demand the use of another human being's body to sustain its life.
Edited by - funkyderek on 13 August 2002 12:39:22
What a subject this is!
As a woman, I believe that there are certain circumstances which would best serve mother and fetus, if the birth did not occur. Accidental pregnancy from an inexperienced young girl. Pregnancy resulting from rape is one. Deformity is another. Life and death issues for the health of both is yet another.
I feel that no one else has the right to make the final decision for a woman. It should be the woman's choice. She is the one who will have to live with her decision. It is her body.
I do believe that a simple "unwanted" pregnancy would not be a good reason to get an abortion. There are other people to consider. If the woman has a relationship with a man, he does have a right to know. If married, the husband does have a say in the matter. If unmarried, how will the child be cared for? Could the child be delivered and then given to another family through adoption?
There are so many who want children and can't have them, and others that get rid of them like they were a pimple. Abortion should never be considered as a method of "birth control".
Personally, I would not want to judge another person for making this most sensitive decision. They will have to live with themselves. Some of us can do that, others can't. We are all different.
Love and Light,
Sentinel
I would like to respond to Silverleaf's comment on page one. It is clearly a woman's personal decision as to whether or not to abort. However, I can't say it is, in all cases, exclusively her decision. My husband's ex-wife became pregnant when they were still married 7 years ago. they were told up front it was a high risk prenancy, and the baby would likely not survive. My husband (then hers), the father, opted to abort early on. She refused. He acquiesed. The baby was born with all of her intestines on the outside of her body, among other things. She surviverd. She lived with a feeding tube and full oxygen for 18 months befoe she finally died. He never even got to pick her up and hold her. Meanwhile, the other two, older children became virtual strangers to their mother, who, rightly so, spent 24 hours a day with baby Annie...many of those hours in hospital. The huge hospital bill, of course, is not a major issue as far as making a decision to abort, but the pain and suffering of Annie, and the family as a whole certainly are. IMO, Dad has ...or should have...a say in the decision. In her depression after the baby died, the mother ran off with some guy who later bacame her boss. The whole family was torn apart, and even though it has been a few years, all are still unsettled by all of this. Dad certainly has a say, don't you think? HbH
Hi HomebutHiding,
Of course every situation is different and what you described had to be horrible for everyone involved. In the case of a couple faced with a high risk pregnancy of course I think the father does have some say and it's something the couple has to work out, but the fact remains it is the woman who has to go through the pregnancy, the labor and deal with the physical and emotional consequences of that experience. While I think a married woman should definitely include her husband in the decision making process, if he makes the choice, no matter what the choice is, she has to deal first hand with the consequences and either way, she could end up resenting him for it. It sounds like in the case you described, there would have been emotional turmoil no matter what decision had been made.
Silverleaf
I have a problem with all of these, though.
The overriding implication is that abortion is morally wrong although it can be emotionally justified in some cases.
The problem is (as has been shown in many places): if your decision to abort is based on emotional justifications of something you've let someone convince you is wrong, it opens the door for religious fundamentalists later to guilt you into feeling you've sinned/murdered/etc.
RE: joannadandy (guilty are you)
How dare you even suggest to know anything about my past! No I have never had an abortion, and even if I had, like I would share a matter like that on this board.
why dont you think its "murder",In my post I didn't say anything about how I view abortion. Thank you very much for jumping to conclusions, that just proves the point that I was trying to make, you want to argue, you don't want to listen to what anyone has to say. You didn't even really read my post, but rather suggested I had an abortion, and condoned them, when I said nothing of the sort and simply stated that bringing up this topic wouldn't acomplish anything, because I had my suspicions that you are a troll looking to cause trouble and not really talk about an issue that is a private health matter.
