Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois 163 Replies latest jw friends

  • QUANTUM
    QUANTUM

    I haven't read all of the posts but I can tell you why GOD would not have used evolution to create this or any other world and the life forms on them. GOD, the Bible declares, changes not...HE is a GOD of order not confussion. If evolution was the method then the out come would be no different then a "crap shoot".

    Can't you just hear GOD say to HIS angels, " hey guys, look at that one, we've never seen that kind before. This evolution thing that I started keeps us all guessing".

    QUANTUM THE GREAT!!!

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hillary ---

    That is not to say that God does not exist, or that some universal plan is not a-foot, it does seem to indicate though, that God did not want us to find this out in a hurry...lol

    Here you touch on a factor that I feel that nearly all of us have left out.

    I read an article written by (as I recollect) an Egyptian moslem that argued very persuasively that the real problem with the faith was the stranglehold the religious leaders had on it, so much so that new research, etc., had no chance to be assimilated. They had convinced themselves that they already knew all that was necessary to know and that the ancient traditions were sufficient.

    The end result is, of course, that the people that follow it live in conditions that are the same as hundreds or even thousands of years ago and those nations in its grasp stagnate. The very societies in which the religion exists become intellectual backwaters.

    I suspect this is one of the reasons that Jesus opposed the traditions of his day. He realized that they were set in concrete and were unchangeable, thereby being the very first obstacle we would have to overcome in order to learn whatever things Jehovah does want us to know.

    Closely related to this, I feel that the religious leaders take the wrong meaning out of such scriptures as Isa. 55:8, 9, and assume that it is either impossible or forbidden for mankind to think God's thoughts and for anyone to try would be presumptuous.

    However, I don't think so. Rather, Jehovah is stressing to us that we need to elevate our level of thinking. He apparently wants us to know these things even while making allowance for our lack of perceptive abilities. One might compare the situation to one of us, as parents, desiring to teach our children the realities of life. Some things can be assimilated at a young age. Others cannot until later in life. At the same time, neither He, nor we, wish to talk down to the ones in our charge.

    It's rather hard to elevate our thoughts when our religious leaders refuse to feed us anything but pap and teach us that all "independent thought" is a sin and punish us accordingly.

    Remember Matthew 23:13? "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees,hypocrites! because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in." Perhaps the above is the mechanism by which they became guilty of his charges.

    You add:

    . . it is actually our greatest spiritual strength in that impels us to reach for the skies, and pushes forward the boundaries of our reason.

    This attitude has been almost nonexistant is religion, thanks to tradition. Perhaps it is time for it to be utilized. I see no reason, scriptural or otherwise, that science alone should have a lock on such thinking.

    LoneWolf

    Edited by - LoneWolf on 6 July 2002 7:53:36

    Edited by - LoneWolf on 6 July 2002 7:59:7

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step
    Can't you just hear GOD say to HIS angels, " hey guys, look at that one, we've never seen that kind before. This evolution thing that I started keeps us all guessing".

    Even theologically this thinking is flawed, let alone scientifically.

    For example the Bible indicates that God was shocked by the behavior of the Caananites in offering their children in the fire, indicating that these things had not even 'come into my heart'. Subsequently even from a Biblical perspective things exist that God has not perceived of or planned.

    An artist may understand what he wants to paint, and paints within the boundaries of his canvas, but he certainly does not know where this creative process will take him. Even a Christain/evolutionist would accept that God 'breathed' or ignited the natural forces that would spawn the enormity life upon the planet. A tiny match can ignite a forest fire, and so this creative process may have happened. Of course of this we have no scientific proof.

    Best regards - HS

    PS - Quantum - please alter the size of your signature, it is distracting but above all its sentiments are patently untrue in from every viewpoint.

  • gravedancer
    gravedancer
    not faith with intelligence

    Frank - you refer to faith with intelligence.....and I know you are trying to get believers to reconcile evolution together with their faith in this thread.

    But I am asking, without being a smart-ass even if it comes across as such. how does one intelligently have faith. Now I am not saying that people with faith are stupid (some of the smartest guys whoever lived had faith) but using intelligence how does one reconcile faith into the equation:

    • What intelligent basis is there for believing in God?
    • If we do believe in God then how do we know what he wants of us and expects of us?
    • How do I find all this out? I know some will give me cute answers like "stop looking so hard" but that won't cut it for me. I cannot just believe because I want to, their needs to be compelling evidence to believe something.

    Alanf and Amazing, if you are reading then please weigh in here with your thoughts too.

    GD

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Francois,

    I think the reason so many cannot reconcile the existence of God and evolution is that humans are selfish and narcissistic. They find it impossible to accept that God might not spend every moment dottering around them and their petty needs and problems. Since humans see themselves as such creatures of importance, its no wonder they can't conceive they came into existence in any way other than directly from the hand of God.

    Farkel

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    gravedancer,

    : I cannot just believe because I want to, their needs to be compelling evidence to believe something.

    My standard answer for belief in God is this: "it can't hurt!" I'm not being cute, either. I'm covering my bases.

    Farkel

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Francois,

    NIce thread Ihave read it with interest.

    I have been reading a little about the threory of Chaos here's a link if interested:

    http://www.wfu.edu/~petrejh4/HISTORYchaos.htm

    I beleive that evolution is based in scientific facts and that Geneses 1 could possibly be discribing in simple terms to men who at that time had a very limited understanding of the world around them, the order in Genesis seems to be right with reguard to the sequence of events.

    Could not God used what scientist today day call Organized Chaos?

  • Eric
    Eric

    Farkel,

    My standard answer for my belief in hovering pink unicorns is, "it can't hurt".

    Sure, I'm covering old ground, but the argument is still valid, unless I'm missing something.

    Eric

    Edited to relieve my concern for other peoples feelings

    Edited by - Eric on 6 July 2002 11:3:21

  • gravedancer
    gravedancer
    My standard answer for belief in God is this: "it can't hurt!" I'm not being cute, either. I'm covering my bases

    Farkel, thats a incomplete(I'm not being cute either). Heres why:

    Lets say we take the attitude that "it can't hurt". OK...so we say we will believe in God. Who is he/she? What does that belief mean? What do I have to do to show I believe in this God? What does God expect from me?

    If we cannot answer those basic questions then we might as well NOT believe because our actions and behaviours are then not affected at all by the belief.

  • gravedancer
    gravedancer

    Eric....I thought the unicorns were blue. I feel so betrayed....

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